x DEPARTMENT m STATE Mr DECLASSIFIED - Authority 4 44 3996 20 WIYNIN 0' 701 YNI TRANSMIQSION rr 7w mama INFORMATION 7 5 omcepe 4'7 5 3 on or mronin nou STAvcmpud EPORT 951 on roilingw v MW r11 1 g' LnoM sounca 0mg 0 I REQUEST NO Jsln imu 3 a ion Programmi u#lsfsoKNYEK f I I INFORMATION DEVELOBED IN CONVERSATION WITH DARWICH AT SYATE INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON ISOTOPE SEPARATIQN AMSTERDAM 233-273 APRIL 1957 IS REPORTED 5 - MAYERIAL IN OF CNIKLF 0F NAVAL gig 1 A Dr Heinz BARWICH Director Institute for Nuclear-Physics Dresden 5 Germany _ Soviet Zone had dinner with Dr g'arl COHEN Atomic Energy '5 Divisi'On General Electric Co USA Dr George 'Research 3 Division 08 ABC and the preparing officer on 27 April 1957'whi-l-e' attending the International Symposium on I sotOpe Separation AMSTERDAM 3 BARWICH was in' the USSR from 1945 to 1954 and is known to have played-ls- -- an important role inlthe design of the Soviet Gaseous -Diffusioh 3 The following discussed during dinner table conversatiom 1 2 CASCADE AND STAGE TEEORYA 1 BARWIOH hadga pproached COHEN at the conference and introduced him - Mite-2 - 0 self as the marr who had your place in tl e Soviet program During the dinner BARWICH said that he had worked out most of the vcascade theory - LAWSTHII AMCYINOPTNK NATIONAL had published in his book but gthat it was now locked up rin - a -safsjginthe BARWICH said that he assumed-COHEN had also writgzen 9 3 a bool on stage theory but it that it was still locked up g3 stated that_he found stage theory much morfre interesting He said thi'a included a study of re_al barriers pressurfs velocities etc When asked if he would liketo publish this now he said that it was all locked up in the USSR and that it was not very interesting to workCONYAINS UNPROCZSSED PLANS POLICIES BHQULD '40 IE 0R MODIFIED OLSLVION I SIS 0F inns BY r' BY ONI only to um ton numb I I u cm cmcr ac m CumSubPa IIRL or I Eucmsuns snIE cincPac ComSuhlant on or I M5 Cinclant FK chSIs Hc um 12 HI j USA CiuCNelm ComI_LSearrun um 921E Y3 52 52 USMC ricelm c_omCarih gafm nc - N2 usu Commc oomEastsLarr _ nE - u i 1CnmNavFe ComHawSeafrun 1 MW N4 lral JI Itumlavset um i r2 cc each add I Bom avMarianas JAR 5 each rat jCUInmerce I anmMidEastfor BuSandA W'nm r4 11m CnmNavPhil BuShig uno H1 'usg ComISIflt - auner am 1 H3l cmzunm Bu otks om m3 Wan -Isecnav om 31 In - LIL __1 egUet ComSmG t Bu rd DP55 69 22010 usm ByPers 0960 -- - jam ComMinPac 61m om l3 ComMinlant um um I NIS OPGJ - - cc assg elI Authoru ej'ifolmson-L -- Date 02-09-2017 A I DECLASSIFIED mummy 421113113510 1 39INFORMATION I I 7 - 8'15 I omuv roan aczca ncnrounw I I - 2r th Ex-g DATEI I 1 COMUAVGER no 403 154-5-37 c- A 30' 37 he had done a 111 Is of this'r A 5 I ecently When it9 gas sug ested that heI might publish Ithis 1n' the fueIr Naturforsch ng he laughed 21 BAEWICH stated that herhad not participated in as detailed an app11c a- on the- -caSOade theory as the stage theory and that his calculati ons of the 'bter were confined tb such things as stability losses and eQuillib um times He recalled that in one calculation he showed the Soviets -t111 a certain cascade had an equillibrium time ofrlSO years IIThis was'reCalled with some relish as though it may have been an important do achievem It From the context it was not clear whether BARWICE was refer ringI Ito gaseous diffusion cascaIde as a counter current diffusion cascade II4 ECI PRICE LIST FORBARWICH stated that he believed the U S JEU price list for 235 to be quite low He said Eonly- peOple who don' t anM about these things would say the price' was high He seemed sure' that the USSR could' not produce it that cheaply He also -said he did not expectI the IUSSR tOIexport IsigniIfi- ff JC Ioant ammounts of '1 - s' fsov1ag BARRIER GASEOUS FIIFFUSION a'f 4 - 42 USC 2162 Alf 9 7 5 41 I The derinite i fe si 'wa 'maae tEa now something I yg it was not stated in so many words It was necessary to change the subject to relieve the tension Earlier BARWICH saiId he 40 had agreedI with ISovietsI to keep hisIknowledge IsecretOUNTERCURRENT DIFFUSIOE jI 1 Iam 'i-13 I I vIp 993771 -BARWICU stated thAt BENEDICT was not correct in stating in an article r published in 19519 that count rcurrent diffusiOn could7no_t be used for separationgof uranium isotopes They found that this could he done using' 4 a fluorinated- hydrocarbonxas carrier but that it was not a very economical in spite of the faot that it could' usencheaplthermal energy i9 It I - 3 DIFFUSIO I7 I i - Because KAPITZA would net wOrk 1A the USSR Atomic Weapons pr0gram hel3r was replaced as director of his Institth by ALEXANDROV con-'J ducted experiments -on thermal diffusion o'f liquids but did notI 1 'hear that he was sucessful BARWICH was Of' the opinion that gaseous UF6 could be sucessfully used- in a thermal diffusion column if an inert A gas as third component was used which was continuously recycled through - the system It was not clear whether this opinion was basedron mentsgorgwas merely an IOpiniono 7 1 I Lita-LC - 52373 I -- - DECLASSIFIED DAUthOrity 2 - REPORV 10 15 1 J E3-f 5 dia ff 0 ls s lftf'ftl'ON FROM Pox-rcommvemz APO 403 164-8 57' 50 Apr 57 e mm Pom REACTOR r 1 4 4 91 win I I - 7 that the DDR W131 receive a small pressurized water 5' -power reactor moderated withg ighx water--and using 1 5- percent enriched uranium as fuel He stated this may be in operation in 1960 or 1961 - He did not seem to be taking a lead1n jrole in this project 59 3 x gawk that his most important problem was the supervision or the installation of a Soviet research reactor in his 1aboratory i was described as a 2000 kilowatt reactor of the swimming pool type fueled Lw1th 10 percent material Mu - I v nan-w - - 1o MENTIONED 513 5 tEii to Moscow in 15$ for the official ceremony of opening the new Soviet accelerator He said he seldom visited west' Germany but often wentxto West Gerlin on his to Berlin- 4 ff n DECLASSIFIED Authority gag 3995 k if aim INFORMATION REPORT a ownnv roan 302 2 C cure luv 3 CLAssn-lcanopqREPORT 3' 3 $953 3 30 Apr 57 Source Information '13 - j gaJ Participation of preparing officer i n subject conversations - Preparing Officer 8 Comment153V j j 5 ff 7- qu 42 usc 2162 a RD b0 The calculation10fja '150 year equillibri f1m8 may S e applied f to an early flat- plate gaseous diffusion plant whi h was deszgned by the Soviets to prOuuce 9O Qercg t -- -- r n-u-v-k Ll - - uctw A The remark8 on the u8e of countercurrent diffusion for urenium v- hexafluoride weremrepJEred by BARWICH during his paper which he pre- 8ented to the T m i7 4qu a ginxk 72 a jff Oswald Fa Schuette f j 3 Scientific TechnicalJUnit 335 1' 3123 1 t Forwarded                     National Security Archive    Suite 701  Gelman Library  The George Washington University    2130 H Street  NW  Washington  D C  20037    Phone  202 994‐7000  Fax  202 994‐7005  nsarchiv@gwu edu