Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 I Date zoozll bmeatSeCAct 226 it T0 ALEC A - mom NatSecAct SUBJECT EYES ONLY DETAILS OF ENOVEMBER 2902 FIRST INTERROGATION SESSION WITH AL-NASHIRI NatSecAct BODY NatSecAct NatSecAct NatSecAct b b b NatSecAct NatSeCAct NatSeCff ffuuw 02 STAFF NatseCACt NatSecDuz 1 I TO IMMEDIATEALEC DIRECTOR NatSecAct FOR ClAAct 1 1 NatSecAct NatSecAct SUBJECT EYES ONLY - DETAILS OF DNOVEMBER 2002 FIRST INTERROGATION SESSION WITH AL-NASHIRI NatSecAct NatSecAct TEXT 1 ACTION REQUIRED DEFER TO HEADQUARTERS FOR DISSEMINATION OF 1 ALL OR PART OF THE BELOW IN INTEL FORMAT ALSO REQUEST THAT PROVIDE US WITH A b NatSeCAct TO EACILITATE FUTURE DEBRIEEINSS 2 SUWARY ON AGGRESSIVE INTERROGATION PHASE OF SENIOR OPERATIVE AL-RAHIM AL- AKA MULLAH SUBJECT SUBJECT WAS DEBRIEFED b THREE TIMES BY HVT INTERROGATORS b NatSeC Act NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 06 26 C06665561 Approved for Release 201'8 06 26 006665561 NatSecAct ACCOMPANIED BY THE FIRST SESSION RAN NatSecAct x FROM 0950 HOURS TO 1054 HOURS CONCENTRATING ON ACTIVITIES FROM FEBRUARY 2002 UNTIL THE TIME OF HIS ARREST IN UAE TO INCLUDE DETAILS OF THE HORMUZ OPERATION AND THE CONCEPTION OF THE DUBAI OPERATION 3 THE FIRST SESSION OF THE DAY BEGAN WHEN SECURITY TEAM INTERROGATORS AND LINGUIST ENTERED THE CELL AT 0950 HOURS SUBJECT WAS REMOVED FROM THE LARGE BOX AND WAS LED HOODED TO THE WALLING WALL HOOD WAS SLOWLY REMOVED FROM HIS HEAD THE ROLLED SUPPORT PLACED AROUND HIS NECK AND THE INTERROGATION SESSION BEGAN INTERROGATORS REMINDED SUBJECT THAT THEY HAD LEFT OFF ON HIS STORY WHEN THE HORMUZ OPERATION HAD BEEN CANCELED WHICH HE HAD SAID WAS IN APPROXIMATELY FEBRUARY 2002 SUBJECT WAS TO TELL THEM WHY THE OPERATION HAD BEEN CANCELED SUBJECT REMAINED INTERROGATORS MENACINGLY DIRECTED SUBJECT TO SPEAK UP SUBJECT MUMBLED TOLD TO REPEAT IT HE STATED THAT HE HAD REMEMBERED SOMETHING FROM THE DAY BEFORE AND ASKED IF INTERROGATORS WANTED HIM TO TELL IT TOLD TO SPIT IT OUT SUBJECT SAID NatSecAct TOLD SUBJECT THAT THEY WERE PLEASED HE HAD RECALLED THIS INFORMATION AND TOLD IT TO THEM THEY THEN DIRECTED HIM TO RETURN TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND THE HORMUZ OPERATION AND WHY IT WAS CANCELED 4 SUBJECT STATED THAT THE MAIN REASON THE OPERATION WAS CANCELED WAS THAT CONTACTED HIM VIA MOBILE PHONE TEXT MESSAGE AND NOTIFIED HIM THAT THE BROTHERS WERE UNABLE TO GET THE b 1 NECESSARY MATERIALS THE OPERATION WAS CANCELED RATHER THAN NatSecAct HE SAID BECAUSE MOST OF THE BROTHERS AND THREE OF THE YEMENI INVOLVED IN THE OPERATION BELIEVED THAT THE SECURITY SITUATION FOR THEM WAS WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS NOT CONVINCED THAT THE OPERATION SHOULD BE HALTED AND WANTED TO CONTINUE NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 NatSecAct 5 INTERROGATORS TOLD SUBJECT TO TELL THEM ABOUT HIS LACK OF MEANS FOR THIS OPERATION SUBJECT SAID THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS OPERATION HAD BEEN TO HAVE YEMENI CARRY OUT THE OPERATION W0 NatSecAct SUBJECT SAID UBL GIVE HIM A SET AMOUNT OF MONEY TO FINANCE THE OPERATION STATING THAT WHEN HE NEEDED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR ON PORTION OF THE OPERATION HE ASKED FOR IT AND IT WAS PROVIDED BY UBL NatSecAct INTERROGATORS IMMEDIATELY NatSeCActI ATTENTION GRAB WITH SUBJECT APPLYING THE WALLING TECHNIQUE FOR EMPHASIS INTERROGATOR MENACINGLY TOLD SUBJECT HE HAD BETTER ANSWER HIM NOW AND SLAPPED THE WALLING WALL WITH HIS HAND NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 NatSecAct NatSecAct 7 ASKED IF THE YEMENI EVER LEARNED TO CREW THE BOAT SUBJECT SAID NO EXPLAINING THAT THE SHIP WAS IN DUBAI FOR TWO MONTHS WHILE THE LEGAL PAPERWORK WENT THROUGH AND THAT DURING THIS TIME THE SHIP NEVER SET SAIL SUBJECT STATED THAT WHEN HE CANCELED THE OPERATION HE SENT THE BACK TO SUBJECT WAS TOLD TO EXPLAIN HESITATING FOR A MOMENT SUBJECT ASKED IF INTERROGATORS WANTED THE SHORT ANSWER OR THE DETAILED INTERROGATORS SAID THEY WANTED DETAILS SUBJECT SAID THAT WHEN HE GOT NEWS THAT THEY WOULD BE UNABLE TO OBTAIN THE EXPLOSIVES AND DECIDED TO END THE OPERATION HE HELD A MEETING WITH THE YEMENI AND TOLD THEM TO GO BACK TO YEMEN NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 06 26 C06665561 Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 NatSecAct SUBJECT CONTINUED STATING THAT HE TOLD THE YEMENIS THAT THE OPERATION WAS CANCELED AND THAT THEY WERE TO Go To YEMEN AND OTHER MEN THERE LIKE INTERROGATORS CHALLENGED SUBJECT ON THIS -- HE QUICKLY ADDED THAT HE MEANT THEY COULD JOIN OR OTHER GROUPS THERE IN YEMEN ASKED IF HE KNEW OF OTHER SUCH INDIVIDUALS IN YEMEN SUBJECT STATED THAT HE DID NOT HE SAID HE SENT THE GROUP To ABU WALID BECAUSE ABU WALID WAS SENT To YEMEN THROUGH SUBJECT BECAUSE ABU WALID HAD AN OPERATION THERE IN YEMEN SUBJECT WAS ASKED IF THIS WAS THE SAME AS ABU TRIP AND SUBJECT CLARIFIED THAT NO THIS WAS NOT THE SAME AS BECAUSE ABU WALID HAD HIS OWN OPERATION WHICH SUBJECT COULD NOT INTERFERE WITH THAT SAID ABU WALID WAS A FRIEND so WHEN HE SUBJECT PUT ABU WALID UP AT HOUSE BOUGHT HIM A TICKET T0 YEMEN THEN SENT HIM ON HIS WAY ASKED IF HE KNEW WHAT ABU PLANS WERE SUBJECT STATED THAT HE KNEW ABU WALID WAS WORKING ON A PLOT SIMILAR TO HIS OWN SUBJECT ELABORATED AT INTERROGATOR SUGGESTION THAT UBL HAD DELEGATED TO HIM THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OVERSEEING THE HORMUZ OPERATION LATER ON NEI UBL TOLD SUBJECT THAT HAD A GROUP THAT WOULD BE SENT TO YEMEN To HIT AN OIL TANKER SUBJECT ASKED UBL WHAT UBL WANTED HIM TO DO AND UBL REPLIED THAT SUBJECT WAS JUST TO AS THE GROUP ALREADY HAD EVERYTHING ELSE ASKED IF MEANT AS HE DID WITH ABU WALID SUBJECT EXPLAINED THAT WHEN HIS GROUP WAS READY TO DO THE HORMUZ OPERATION AND ABU GROUP WAS READY To Do THEIR OPERATION HE AND ABU WALID WERE TO BE IN TOUCH SO THAT THE TWO OPERATIONS COULD BE EXECUTED SIMULTANEOUSLY NatSecAct HE SAID HE CONTACTED HAZIM WHO ALONG WITH AL-DARBI CAME TO THE HOTEL TO MEET HIM SUBJECT SAID A FRIENDSHIP DEVELOPED AMONG THE THREE AND THEY DECIDED TO CHECK INTO ACQUIRING A SMALL THIS WAS SOMETIME DURING MARCH 2002 SUBJECT ELABORATED THAT BY THE TIME HE ARRIVED IN DUBAI THE LARGE SHIP WHICH WAS TO HAVE BEEN USED FOR THE HORMUZ 0P HAD ALREADY BEEN THERE WERE TWO PAKISTANIS WHO WERE TO GUARD THE BOAT AND THREE YEMENIS THE WHO ULTIMATELY WERE TO HAVE DRIVEN THE TWO SMALLER BOATS INTO THE U S OIL TANKERS ALREADY ON BOARD SUBJECT WAS THEN TOLD ABOUT THE THEN-DELAY IN ACQUIRING THE EXPLOSIVES AND WENT TO BEGIN SEARCHING FOR THE FIRST OF THE TWO SMALL FIBERGLASS BOATS WHICH WERE TO SERVE AS THE DELIVERY VEHICLES FOR THE EXPLOSIVES SUBJECT SAID THEY MEANING HE AND HAZIM WENT TO THE FACTORY WHERE SUCH BOATS WERE MADE AND ACQUIRED Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 THE REQUISITE ON THE CRAFTS LOOKING TO PURCHASE THE GROUP ALSO CONTACTED A MECHANICAL ENGINEER WHO THEY WERE HOPING COULD PROVIDE WITH COSTING INFORMATION ON A MOTOR AS NEW ENGINES WERE VERY EXPENSIVE DURING THIS TIME IN THEIR HUNT FOR A SMALL BOAT THE TRIO CAME ACROSS A SMALL BOAT ALREADY NAMED DISCUSSING THE CRAFT WITH THE OWNER THEY WERE ADVISED THAT FOR 30 000 EMIRATI DIRHAMS THEY COULD PURCHASE IT AFTER LEAVING THAT MAN SUBJECT ADVISED THE OTHER TWO THAT THEY REALLY DID NEED TO PURCHASE A BOAT ANY BOAT AND SOON NOTING THAT EVEN THE WOULD SUIT THEIR PURPOSES AL-DARBI THEREFORE BOUGHT THE FOR THEIR USE IN THE HORMUZ OP 9 RESPONDING TO INTERROGATOR QUESTIONING SUBJECT STATED THAT THE LARGE WOODEN BOAT ALREADY CAME WITH SEA AND WATERWAY CHARTS THESE WERE OLD HOWEVER AND HE ADVISED THE YEMENIS TO PURCHASE NEW ONES HE SUGGESTED THAT THEY BUY ONES OF THE WATERWAYS BETWEEN THE EMIRATES AND PAKISTAN SUBJECT CONTINUE WITH HIS TALE AT THE END OF MARCH BY NOW STATING THAT ONCE AL-DARBI PURCHASED THE THEY BEGAN TO WORK WITH THE SHIP TAKING IT ON TRIAL RUNS AND WORKING ON THE ENGINE WHICH SOMETIMES GAVE OUT COMPLETELY ON ONE SUCH TRIAL RUN WHILE IN THE DUBAI HARBOR SPOTTED A BRITISH WARSHIP AND COMMENTED THAT HE HAD NOTED OTHER SUCH MILITARY SHIPS DOCKING IN THE DUBAI HARBOR PORT RASHID SUBJECT CLAIMED HE TOLD AL-DARBI THAT THIS SHIP WAS NOT THEIR CONCERN AT THIS TIME AND THAT THEY SHOULD FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT AT HAND HORMUZ AND TALK ABOUT WARSHIPS LATER INTERROGATORS ASKED WHETHER ABU OP PLANNING WAS ALSO ONGOING AT THIS SUBJECT SAID ABU OPERATIONAL PLANNING HAD BEGUN LONG BEFORE NOTING THAT ABU WALID HAD ALREADY GONE TO YEMEN TO BEGIN THAT OPERATION BEFORE 11 SEPTEMBER 2001 SUBJECT AGAIN PICKED UP THE THREAD OF HIS STORY STATING THAT THE DAY AFTER SPOTTING THE WARSHIP IN THE HARBOR AL-DARBI WENT TO FINALIZE THE PAPERWORK FOR THE ADDITIONALLY AL-DARBI WAS TRYING TO BUY A HOIST TO MOUNT ON THE LARGE WOODEN SHIP INTERROGATORS INTERRUPTED ANGRILY STATING THAT SUBJECT HAD DISCUSSED THIS ALL WITH THEM THEY TOLD SUBJECT THEY TOLD HIM TO BEGIN HIS TALE-IN FEBRUARY NOT LATE MARCH AS HE HAD ORIGINALLY TOLD THEM THAT HE DECIDED TO CANCEL THE HORMUZ OPERATION IN FEBRUARY WITH INTERROGATORS GLARING AT HIM SUBJECT BLEATED THAT HE REALLY REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN HE ULTIMATELY DECIDED TO CANCEL THE HORMUZ OPERATION SAYING THAT HE THOUGHT WAS ABLE TO REMEMBER THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE BUT NOT THE EXACT DATES OF WHEN THINGS OCCURRED NatSecAct SUBJECT SAID THAT ONCE THE HORMUZ OP WAS CANCELED THE YEMENIS HAD RETURNED TO YEMEN HAD TAKEN THE WOODEN SHIP AND HEADED TO SOMALIA AND HE HIMSELF WENT TO SAUDI ARABIA SUBJECT BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT OTHER OPERATIONS HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO ASKED IF AL-DARBI TOOK THE SHIP TO SELL SUBJECT SAID THAT AL-DARBI HAD TAKEN THE SHIP TO SOMALIA WITH GOODS LUMBER Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 Approved for Release 2018 06 26 006665561 AND PLANNED TO USE THE SHIP COMMERCIALLY AS AL-DARBI HAD HEARD THERE WAS A LUCRATIVE TRADE IN TRANSPORTING SHEEP FROM SOMALIA TO YEMEN SUBJECT ELABORATED THAT HE AND HAD ACTUALLY FOUGHT ABOUT THIS AS SUBJECT TO SELL THE SHIP IN THE EMIRATES AND BE DONE WITH IT SUBJECT SAID THAT ONCE AL-DARBI LEFT FOR SOMALIA HE HAD NOT BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM AT ALL AND DID NOT KNOW WHETHER ALTDARBI CONTINUED TO WORK IN THE SHEEP TRANSPORT BUSINESS OR WHETHER AL-DARBI STILL HAD THE LARGE WOODED BOAT INTERROGATORS TOLD SUBJECT THAT HE WAS TO NOW SIT AND THINK ABOUT ADDITIONAL DETAILS OF HIS HARBOR PLAN AS THEY WOULD BE BACK SUBJECT WAS GIVEN THE CHOICE OF SITTING ON THE FLOOR HOODED OR BEING RETURNED TO THE LARGE SUBJECT SAID HE TO IN THE LARGE BOX SUBJECT WAS HOODED THEN LED TO THE LARGE BOX BY SECURITY TEAM MEMBERS SUBJECT WAS LOCKED IN THE LARGE BOX AT 1054 HOURS AND I LEFT THE ROOM NatSecAct END OF MESSAGE Approved for Release 2018 06 26 C06665561 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu