Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 nate 2oo21C b 3 NatSecAct TO ALEC b 1 b 3 NatSecAct FROM SUBJECT EYES ONLY- DETAILS OF DECEMBER 2002 INTERROGATION SESSIONS WITH 'ABD ALRAHIM HUSAYN MUHAMMAD 'ABDU NASHIR ---------------------------------------- BODY ---------------- ----------------------- ------ b 1 - - - - - - - - - - _ _ _ _ _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct E t f b 3 NatSecAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 1 b 3 NatSecAct b 3 NatSecAct 111359 IDEC 02 _______________________________________________________ b 1 ___________________ _ 1 b 1 b 3 CIAAct s B e R 13 or b 3 NatSecAct_ __ DEC 02 STAFF b 1 b 3 NatSecAct L _ __ _ _ _ 11359 TO b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct DIRECTOR PRIORITY ALEC INFO b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct FOR j SUBJECT EYES ONLY - DETAILS OFL_JDECEMBER 2002 INTERROGATION SESSIONS WITH 'ABO AL-RAHIM HUSAYN MUHAMMAD 'ABDU NASHIR ----------- b 1 - REF b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct L _ __ _ _ _ _ _ TEXT b 1 b 3 NatSecAct COMBINE COMPLETE c J 1 ACTION REQUIRED NONE FYI WILL SUBMIT PARAS SEVEN EIGHT BELOW IN DRAFT INTEL FORMAT DEFER TO HEADQUARTERS FOR THE 1 AND DISSEMINATION OF OTHER DETAILS BELOW b 1 ------------ ------ b 3 SUMMARY - - - INTERROGATIONS OF SENIOR AL-QA' IDA OPERATIVE MUHAMMAD I ABDU NASHIR AKA MULLAH BILAL SUBJECT NatSecAct 2 I I Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 b 3 NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 b 3 NatSecAct DURING THE INTERROGATION WHICH LASTED APPROXIMATELY TWO HOURS SUBJECT CONTINUED TO PROVIDE VAGUE AND OFTEN CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS DESPITE INTERROGATORS' REPEATED STATEMENTS THAT ONLY IF SUBJECT PROVIDES ACCURATE COMPLETE INFORMATION NOW CAN HE HOPE TO MAKE HIS LIFE MORE BEARABLE AT THE MUCH WORSE PLACE THEY HAVE ASSURED HIM HE IS GOING L __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I I b 1 b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 NatSecAct b 3 CIAAct 4 SECURITY TEAM BACKED THE HOODED AND SHACKLED SUBJECT AGAINST THE WALLING PANEL WITH THE TOWEL NECK RESTRAINT OVER HIS NARROW SHOULDERS HVTI AND LINGUIST - STRODE CATLIKE INTO b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct DEFTLY REMOVED THE SUBJECT'S BLACK HOOD WITH A SWIPE PAUSED AND IN A DEEP MEASURED VOICE SAID THAT SUBJECT - HAVING CALMED DOWN AFTER b 3 CIAAct HIS STAGED RUN-IN WITH HIS HULKING HEAVILY MUSCLED GUARDS THE PREVIOUS DAY - SHOULD REVEAL WHAT SUBJECT HAD DONE TO VEX HIS GUARDS TO THE POINT OF RAGE SUBJECT BLINKING IN THE FLUORESCENT LIGHT DID b 3 CIAAct A FEW CHARACTERISTICALLY FLICKS OF HIS TONGUE REACQUIRED HIS NERVOUS TICK AND IN A FRAIL SQUEAKY VOICE REPLIED NOTHING SLOWLY SHOOK HIS HEAD SIGHED PATIENTLY AND FIXED SUBJECT WITH A b 1 PIERCING GAZE TENSED PEN AND PAD AT THE READY AND EAGER FOR b 3 CIAAct THE BILINGUAL BLITZKRIEG TO BEGIN IN A MEASURED VOICE TOLD b 3 NatSecAct SUBJECT THAT NOW SUBJECT WOULD HAVE ANYTHING ON SUBJECT'S MIND BEFORE QUESTIONS IN HIS OWN WAY AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT WOULD ASK HIS OWN b 3 CIAAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 b 3 b 3 b 1 b 3 b 3 CIAAct NatSecAct CIAAct NatSecAct SEEKING TO IMPRESS UPON SUBJECT L__TH_E_S_E_VE_R_I_TY __ O_F_H_I_S_P_R-ED_I_CAM--ENT--AND_j ELICIT MORE INFORMATION I b 3 I EXPLAINED TO SUBJECT WHY SUBJECT WAS ONLY MAKING THINGS HARDER ON HIMSELF BEGAN YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN US ANYTHING THAT'S HELPFUL L___ _ CIAAct I b 3 CIAAct _j SINCE THE MINUTE YOU STOPPED TALKING ABOUT PORT RASHID YOU HAVE GIVEN US NOTHING YOU TOLD US A LITTLE ABOUTL___ _ _ _ _ BUT WE HAD TO SQUEEZE IT OUT OF YOU SAID WRINGING HIS HANDS IN FRONT OF SUBJECT'S FACE YOU ARE EITHER PURPOSEFULLY TRYING TO b 1 b 3 b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct NatSecAct CONFOUND US - WHICH WON'T WORK - OR YOU ARE JUST BEING IMPRUDENT THIS PLACE YOU'RE GOING IF YOU ACT THERE THE WAY YOU'VE BEEN HERE THEY WILL TRASH YOU EXPLAINED YOU BUT THESE MEN -L______j POINTED I WON'T BE THERE TO HELP TO THE SECURITY TEAM - WILL SUBJECT WAS TOLD THAT THIS IS NOT A JOKE AND I'M NOT TRYING TO TRICK YOU IF YOU PROVIDE INFORMATION I WILL HELP YOU BUT IF YOU DO NOT YOU ARE HEADED FOR THE INNER RING OF HELL AS MY FRIEND TOLD YOU BEFORE SUBJECT BEGAN TO PROTEST THAT HE HAD TOLD EVERYTHING HE KNEW IN DETAIL AND WAS NOT RUNNING AWAY FROM THE SUBJECTS 11 BUT L _ __ _ _ j INTERRUPTED HIM SAYING THAT'S THE WAY IT IS ACTING CONTRIVED OR UPSET WON'T WORK A BIT OUT THERE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL WORK IS b 1 b 3 b 3 MORE INFORMATION b 3 INSTRUCTED SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT THE MEN CIAAct CIAAct NVoLVED IN THE PLANs AT THE PORT oF JEDDAH NatSecAct-------------------WHICH SUBJECT-HAD CONSIDERED RIDICULOUS '------- INTERRUPTED HIM AND SAID HE DID NOT WANT b 3 SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT RIDICULOUS IDEAS BUT TO TALK ABOUT REAL ONES SUBJECT SAID THAT OTHERS HAD TOLD HIM ABOUT SURVEYING THE PORT OF JEDDAH FOR TARGETS THERE b 1 b 3 b 3 I CIAAct NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 l CIAAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct I b 3 CIAAct ITOLD SUBJECT TO GET BACK TO PORT OF JEDDAH b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 3 CIAAct I LISTEN TO ME I ISAID FOR EMPHASIS GRABBING THE TOWEL NECK RESTRAINT YOU PLAN OPERATIONS AGAINST MY COUNTRY AND YOU JUST SAID THIS IDEA WAS USEFUL b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 3 CIAAct SHOUTING NOW CONTINUED I WANT TO KNOW YOUR REASONS FOR THIS SUBJECT BEGAN BABBLING AGAIN SAYING THAT HE HAD SEEN SOMEONE ONCE IN BUT THE RELATION WAS NOT DONE SIC b 3 CIAAct ------ -- ----- b 3 CIAAct I 9 fELEASED THE TOWEL NECK RESTRAINT AND STEPPED BACK LET ME EXPLAIN YOUR DILEMMA SAID WE WANT YOU TO GIVE b 1 INFORMATION BUT YOU DRIBBLE IT OUT BECAUSE OF THIS WE DON'T BELIEVE b 3 CIAAct ANYTHING YOU SAY ANYMORE OR ELSE WE OVER-INTERPRET WHAT YOU FINALLY b 3 NatSecAct DO SAY THIS IS YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT WILL HURT YOU THE STORY YOU JUST TOLD ME IS FOR THESE REASONS HARD TO BELIEVE YOUR STORY IS REASONABLE - BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SO DAMNED DIFFICULT WE CANNOT BELIEVE IT WE ARE ASKING NICELY NOW BUT WE HAVE TOLD YOU THAT YOU b 1 ARE ABOUT TO GO TO ANOTHER PLACE YOU DON'T PROVIDE INFORMATION AND b 3 CIAAct IT IS GOING TO GET YOU HURT I HAVE TOLD YOU I WILL NEVER LIE TO YOU b 3 NatSecAct AND I AM NOT LYING TO YOU NOW 10 ONCE FINISHED TRANSLATING THIS WARNING TOLD b 3 CIAAct b 1 L _ _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct I Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ b 3 NatSecAct 11 -- L _ __ _ ---- WALKED AWAY AT THIS POINT AND CONVENED WITH ------ _jPERSONNEL ABOUT SUBJECT' S STATEMENTS FOR A FEW MINUTES o WHEN HE RETURNED TO SUBJECT'S CELL HE POINTED OUT THAT SUBJECT HAD NEVER BEFORE MENTIONED ANOTHER MEETINGF-L-_________________l- T _ O'---WH I _ C H_ S__ UB JE CT REPLIED NO BUT I WANTED TO b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct 12 o SUBJECT ASKED HIMSELF ALOUD WHAT ELSE COULD BE SAID ABOUT RAMZI BIN AL-SHIBH SUBJECT OFFERED UP THAT HE HAD ALWAYS CONSIDERED REPLIED WITH ANGER Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 3 CIAAct b 1 b 3 NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 3 CIAAct POINTED OUT THAT S UBJECT HAD TALKED ABOUT PLANS FOR OPERATIONS IN HORMUZ PORT RASHID I I A SURVEY AT b 1 THE PORT oF JEDDAH AND AN oPERATION INI I AND ASKED To WHICH oF b 3 CIAAct THESE OPERATIONS WAS RAMZI BIN AL-SHIB REFERRING I DO NOT DISCUSS b 3 NatSecAct ANY OPERATIONS WITH BIN AL-SHIBH SUBJECT SAID SUBJECT SAID THAT ONCE HE HAD STARTED PLANS FOR THE HORMUZ OPERATION HE HAD ONLY THOUGHT OF HORMUZ TOLD TO SPEAK UP SUBJECT SAID THAT AL-QA'IDA HAD NO SPECIFIC PLAN IN EARLY 2002 AND THAT HE HAD BECOME INCREASINGLY OCCUPPIED WITH SUBSEQUENT PLANNING FOR AN OPERATION AT PORT RASHID AND THAT HE HAD SPENT A WEEK OR TWO IN SAUDI ARABIA BUT HAD BEEN VERY CAREFUL NOT TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct I ITOLD SUBJECT THAT HIS b 3 CIAAct COMMENTS WERE CONFLICTING AND MADE NO SENSE HOW SUBJECT WAS ASKED DID HE EXPLAIN TRIPS TO SAUDI ARABIA FREE TIME AND VISITS WITH INSIGNIFICANT PEOPLE TO SEE HOW THEY WERE DOING IF BY SUBJECT'S OWN ADMISSION HE HAD BEEN CONSUMED WITH PLANNING FOR THE HORMUZ AND PORT RASHID OPERATIONS IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ARE SAYING YOU WERE BREAKING CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO COULD HELP YOU SAID SUBJECT SAID THAT HE HAD FREQUENTLY MET WITH MANY MEN WITHOUT b 3 CIAAct L_---------------- ---------- '------I I Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 I Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 SPECIFIC REASONS TO DO SO b 3 CIAAct 15 YOU ARE A HARD MAN TO BELIEVE SAID YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF OVER AND OVER HERE'S A CHANCE FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY BE HELPFUL SUBJECT WAS ASKED WHAT HE KNEW ABOUT PLANS BY AL-QA'IDA OR GROUPS AFFILIATED WITH AL-QA'IDA THAT INVOLVED PEOPLE OR TARGETS IN b 1 r- -L__ _ _ _ _ _ b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct TOLD SUBJECT THAT IF SUBJECT DID NOT BEGIN TO EXPLAIN THESE MATTERS IN A WAY THAT WAS TRUTHFUL AND MADE SENSE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HELP HIM IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU WANT TO G-E-T -INT O MORE TROUBLE' SAID I I M GOING TO ASK YOU A FEW MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT JEDDAH AND I EXPECT YOU TO DO BETTER IF YOU DON'T I 'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN SUBJECT BEGAN TO PROTEST THAT HE HAD TOLD EVERYTHING HE KNEW BUT TOLD HIM THAT ON THE CONTRARY EVERY TIME YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH YOU MAKE YOURSELF SOUND LIKE SOME STUPID LITTLE HELPER THE SHAYKH'S LITTLE ERRAND BOY SAID NOBODY BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS THE CASE AND SAID SUBJECT WAS QUICKLY RUNNING OUT OF CHANCES TO HELP HIMSELF 17 b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct I b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct b 3 CIAAct Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 1 1 1 v 1 v lr-v- vl HARSHLY DELIVERING 19 INTERROGATION SESSION ENDED WITH THE BRIDGE THAT SUBJECT HAD FAILED TO DISCUSS THE PEOPLE OR CIRCUMSTANCES OF PLANS FOR ATTACKS IN WHICH INTERROGATORS ALREAD _ Y ____ KNEW HE HAD BEEN INVOLVED DESPITE BEING FED INFORMATION FROM L___ __ TO PROVE THAT WE KNEW THIS WAS THE CASE SUBJECT WAS TOLD THAT WHILE OTHER AL-QA'IDA DETAINEES HAD EITHER UNASHAMEDLY ADMITTED THEIR PLANS AND INTENTIONS OR HAD TOLD INTERROGATORS THAT THEY WOULD NOT TELL WHAT THEY WERE SUBJECT HAD CHOSEN TO LIE AND TO TRY AND BLAME ALL OF HIS OWN ACTIVITIES ON HIS SUPPOSED FRIENDS SUBJECT WAS ASSURED THAT INTERROGATORS WOULD DO THEIR DUTY AND THAT SUBJECT WOULD PROVIDE THE INFORMATION THEY KNEW HE HAD BUT BECAUSE OF HIS OWN CHOICES THIS WOULD HAVE TO OCCUR THE HARD WAY INTERROGATION CONCLUDED AT 1105 b 3 CIAAct b 1 b 3 N a t S e c A c t - - - - - - - - - - - - - b - - - - - - - - - - - 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct I I END OF MESSAGE Approved for Release 2018 07 31 C06665566 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu