DRAFT Memorandum of Conversation SUBJECT The President s Private Meeting with Gorbachev TIME AND PLACE December 7 1988 1 05 1 30 P M Commandant's residence Governors Island New York PARTICIPANTS U S USSR The President Chairman Mikhail S Gorbachev The Vice President Viktor Sukhodrev MFA USA Canada Nelson Ledsky NSC Staff Department Notetaker Director Notetaker Georgiy Mamedov MFA USA Canada Thomas W Simone Jr Department Notetaker Notetaker Pavel Palazhchehko Interpreter Dimitri Zarechnak Interpreter The President commented that there would be five waves of media representatives Gorbachev responded that that was not the most difficult task they were facing The President said the first wave would be Soviet and the last from international media Gorbachev said each time they met the weather got better The President replied jovially that we arranged that Turning to substance Gorbachev said he hoped what he had said at the UN had not contained surprises He had wanted to address the logical construction of what had been done in recent years as a matter of real policy This was their fifth meeting It was not a negotiating session but at the same time it was their fifth meeting and it was special taking place as it did in this group SEGREEJSENSITIVE DECLASSHWEU BY 5 7 NARA DATE - 2 The President said it was a pleasure for him to commemorate their meetings He well remembered standing in front of the house before the lake in Geneva waiting for Gorbachev at their first meeting Most of his people thought at the time it would be their only meeting Gorbachex said it was true that they had much to remember and much to look forward to as well This was true not just in a personal sense The most important thing they had done was to begin movement in the right direction gngachev commented that the Vice President was listening but probably saying to himself let them talk A media representative asked Gorbachev why he had announced troop cuts at the UN Gorbachev replied that as he had just told the President and the Vice President what he had announced was a continuation and implementation of what he had first outlined on January 15 1986 Gorbachex said he appreciated what the President and he had accomplished in recent years They had made a joint analysis undertaken joint efforts and taken real specific steps forward He had now outlined certain additional ideas that demonstrated the realistic nature of the policy and added to it He had issued an invitation to work together not just to the U s What he had said was grounded in common sense and experience A journalist asked him if he expected the NATO Allies including the U S to reduce as well Gorbachev replied that he had made clear that these were unilateral steps undertaken without reference to the Vienna mandate He had been discussing the range of disarmament humanitarian and economic questions with the 0 8 and the Soviet Union's European partners As for this meeting it was not for negotiations it resulted from his being in New York and the President s and Vice President s invitation to meet on that occasion He hoped it would be a useful meeting A journalist asked if there was opposition to the cuts in his country Gorbachev said the answer was The President commented that Gorbachev s Russian nyet sounded a little like yes Gorbachev replied with a smile It that the answer was still no Referring to the camera lights Gorbachev commented that they were between a burning fire and bright lights Egg President said that as a veteran of television he had found that the lights can make you look twelve years younger 3 Gorbachev replied that when he had landed at JFK and made his remarks to the press he had been facing right into the sun and it had been worse than TV lights Gorbacheg asked why the island was called Governors Island The Vice President replied that it had been given to the British governors for their use in colonial times and the name had stuck The Ppesideng said it was now the headquarters for our Coast Guard and they were meeting in the commandant s residence The President asked Gorbachev if he had ever told him about President Lyndon Johnson's remark concerning the press Johnson had said that if he ever walked from the White House to the Potomac and walked out on top of the water the press would report that the President could not swim Gorbachev laughed and said the President had indeed told him the story before After the media had left the President said he had a little memento for Gorbachev It commemorated the moment in Switzerland during their first meeting when they had stopped in the parking lot Gorbachev thanked the President Egg President asked if he could read the inscription and Gorbachev assented The President quoted the inscription that they had walked a long way together to clear a path to peace Geneva 1985 New York 1988 gorbachev said those were good words and be especially appreciated that they were written in the President s own hand he thanked the President Gorbachev said that he would tell the larger group the same thing but he wished to say here that be highly valued their personal rapport and the fact that in a rather difficult time they had been able to begin movement toward a better world The President replied that as he left office he was proud of what they had accomplished together One reason for it was that they had always been direct and open with each other Gorbachev agreed The President said they had accomplished much There was much yet to do but they had laid a strong foundation for the future What he had done had been based on the values that have guided our hand the values we subscribe to in this nation That commitment to promoting trust and confidence remained He asked the Vice President if he had something to say The Vice President said he did not except to comment that the picture the President had given Gorbachev was also symbolic of the distance the two countries had comePresident until January 20 but with reference to the three year span since the picture was taken he would like to think that three years from now there could be another such picture with the same significance He would like to build on what President Reagan had done as he had told Gorbachev when they had met at the Soviet Embassy even before the Presidential campaign had gotten underway He would need a little time to review the issues but what had been accomplished could not be reversed He wished to build on what President Reagan had accomplished working with Gorbachev Gorbachev said he understood the Vice President's words as a very important assessment of what they had been able to achieve in the years just past It seemed to him that the prospects for $oviet Americah relations were good He could only repeat what he had told the President on many occasions the Soviets knew what a country the U S was what its role in the world was what its people were like There was a lot of respect in the Soviet Union for the United States They had cooperated together and there were good prospects for this to continue Gorbachev said he agreed with Vice President Bush on the need to build on the assets the two leaders had piled up There was a lot they could accomplish together Here in this company he wanted to say while they talked as friends that he would treasure the memory of all they had been able to do together in these last years Certainly he agreed with what Mr Bush had said about moving forward and building on what had been achieved But it was also proper that they try to add to it Gorbachev said he know Mr Bush would become President Bush only in January He would bringing new people with him Today Gorbachev said he was working with President Reagan He did hope that the President would also treasure his memory of their joint work to solve problems that the whole world wanted to see solved The President noted that it was a tradition of their meetings that he come at some point to the subject of human rights Gorbachev said the President would now be able to tell the press he had raised it again The President said he was pleased to hear about the steps the Soviets had taken the week before on emigration and on jamming He was pleased with the progress that had been made in the human rights field since their last meeting Gorbachev said he had presented certain thoughts in this regard in his UN address The President said he had had a brief report on it and it all sounded good to him As he had done previously he would like to present a list of about half a dozen names of individuals he would like Gorbachev to look at Accepting the list Gorbachev commented that perhaps they had already left The President said that would be fine if true SECRET7SENSITIVE The President went on to say that we were all on Gorbachev's side concerning the reforms he was trying to make in the Soviet system Gorbachev said he had lots of work and an interesting life Their country had become a different one It would never go back to what it had been three years before regardless of whether he or someone else were leading it The President said he would be watching after he returned to private life and cheering Gorbachev on Gorbachev invited him to come to the Soviet Union as a private citizen The President said that would be nice Gorbachev said they would take good care of him The President suggested they go in to lunch Gorbachev said he valued what the President and Vice President Bush had just said He also wanted to continue on a consistent basis without rushing There was a lot to do together He urged the Vice President to think about it He had a little time in which to do so although on the other hand it was already less than two months before he would become President Noting that he would be putting together a new team Egg Vice President said this was not from dissatisfaction with those who were in the job now Some of those might be leaving Some cabinet members would stay on others would not The theory was to revitalize things by putting in new people He believed that Gorbachev knew Jim Baker He did not think he had met Brent Scowcroft but he was well known to many people on the Soviet side Gorbachev said he knew of him Egg Vice President continued that others would be coming on board over the next few weeks He would like Baker to continue what the President had done with Secretary Shultz good and frequent contacts with Foreign Minister Shevardnadze Gorbachev said he thought that would happen Egg Vice President said that Secretary Baker would obviously want to get together first with his colleagues in NATO and then with Shevardnadze They should get together with their people to decide on things that had not been resolved Gorbachev said he fully understood and found it important that the Vice President was thinking in terms of tackling and deciding and solving problems The Vice President said he had no intention of stalling things He naturally wanted to formulate prudent national security policies but he intended to go forward He had no intention of setting the clock back we wanted to move it forward The President suggested again that they go in to lunch Gorbachev assured him and the Vice President that on the Soviet side there would be full and constructive cooperation ghe Vice President added that he would have the additional incentive of having the President on the phone from California getting on his case and telling him to get going 5 a The President said he wished to remind Gerbachev of something he had said at their first meeting in Geneva He was not sure he had told the Vice President about it He had told Gorbachev that they were two men in a room together whe had the capability of creating the next werld war er the capability 0f bringing peace to the world Now all these years later he thought it was evident that they had decided to keep the world at peace Gorbachev agreed that it had all begun at Geneva 8279M SECRETYSENSITIVE This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu