UNCLASSIFIED E8 33131313540 STATE 392 RELEASED IN FULL INFO LOG-00 ADS-00 SSO-OO CIAE-OO DODE-OO NSCE-OO INRE-OO 000 DRAFTED BY APPROVED BY s s-o JFELT 146511 0413152 10 37 0 0405092 DEC 08 ZFF4 FM SECSTATE WASHDC T0 AMEMBASSY MOSCOW NIACT IMMEDIATE INFO USMISSION USUN NEW YORK IMMEDIATE STATE 392038 EXDIS DECAPTIONED E O 12356 DECL OADR TAGS PREL UR US OVIP SUBJECT GORBACHEV TRIP TO NEW YORK - MEETING WITH ARMACOST REF MOSCOW 27814 1 SECRET - ENTIRE TEXT 2 SUMMARY IN ADDITION TO DISCUSSING THE SOVIET FOR THE LUNCH MEETING IN NEW YORK WITH UNDER SECRETARY ARMACOST SOVIET AMBASSADOR DUBININ MADE THE SUGGESTION OF A SHULTZ-SHEVARDNADZE MEE ING THE MORNING OF WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 7 TIME AND PLACE TO BE DETERMINED EMBASSY SHOULD SEEK TO CONFIRM ARRANGE- MENTS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE PREFERABLY BEFORE SOVIET OFFICIA DELEGATION DEPARTS FOR NEW YORK DRAWING ON SECRET SECRET PAGE 02 STATE 392038 TALKING POINTS AT PARA 12 END SUMMARY MEETING IN NEW YORK 3 SOVIET AMBASSADOR YURIY DUBININ CALLED ON UNDER UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE REVIEW AUTHORITY THEODORE SELLIN ID 29 SEP 2011 201105567 UNCLASSIFIED SECRETARY MICHAEL ARMACOST ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE NEW YORK MEETING DECEMBER 7 BETWEEN CHAIRMAN GORBACHEV AND PRESIDENT REAGAN DUBININ LED OFF BY IMPLYING THAT THERE HAD BEEN AN INTEREST ON THE PART OF SECRETARY SHULTZ IN A MEETING WITH THE SOVIET FOREIGN MINISTER WHICH WAS RECIPROCATED BY SHEVARDNADZE THIS MEETING COULD TAKE PLACE THE MORNING OF WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 7 AT A TIME TO BE DECIDED DUBININ SAID 4 THE UNDER SECRETARY SAID THAT IF SHEVARDNADZE WISHED TO MEET WITH SECRETARY SHULTZ OUR INITIAL THINKING WAS THAT THE TUESDAY AFTERNOON VARIANT PREFERABLE DUBININ ID THE CIRCUMSTANCES HAD CHANGED AND THAT WEDNESDAY MORNING WAS NOW MORE LIKELY MR ARMACOST SAID WEDNESDAY MORNING WAS ACTUALLY EASIER IN SOME WAYS FOR THE U S SIDE INASMUCH AS SECRETARY SHULTZ WOULD HAVE HAD TO RETURN TO WASHINGTON TUESDAY NIGHT AFTER A TUESDAY MEETING HE ASKED WHETHER DUBININ HAD IN MIND A DUBININ HAD NO INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS POINT BUT SUGGESTED 9 30 AS A POSSIBLE TIME MR ARMACOST NOTED THAT SINCE MR U N SCHEDULE STARTED AT 10 THAT LEFT LITTLE TIME DID DUBININ WISH TO IMPLY THAT THE MEETING HAD TO BE OVER BY 10 DUBININ SAID HIS SUGGESTION WAS ONLY A TENTATIVE ONE THE QUESTION OF PRECISE TIMING AND WHETHER THE MEETING WAS TO BE A BREAKFAST WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN OPEN A FINAL SOVIET SECRET SECRET PAGE 03 STATE 392038 DECISION ON THE MEE ING MIGHT HAVE TO AWAIT THE OFFICIAL ARRIVAL IN NEW YORK 5 MR ARMACOST SUGGESTED THAT IN THE INTEREST OF SAVING TIME A MEETING MIGHT TAKE PLACE AT THE U S MISSION TO THE U N RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE HEADQUARTERS BUILDING AMBASSADOR DUBININ NOTED THAT ACCORDING TO THE SOVIET COUNT IT WAS THE TURN TO HOST MR ARMACOST POINTED OUT THAT MEETING AT THE SOVIET MISSION ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE WOULD INVOLVE A MOTORCADE AND THERE MIGHT BE DELAYS OF 10-15 MINUTES OR MORE THE SECRETARY MR ARMACOST ADDED WOULD BE WILLING TO BEGIN AS EARLY AS 8 30 MR SIMONS INTERJECTED THAT WE WERE CONSIDERING THE MEETING TO BE OUTSIDE THE OFFICIAL SEQUENCE OF ALTERNATING VENUES V NE OCHEREDI DUBININ SAID HE WAS THINKING ONY OF THE PRIVILEGE OF HOSTING WHICH SHOULD GO TO THE VISITOR ARMACOST SAID HIS SUGGESTION OF USUN HAD BEEN FOR SAKE UNCLASSIFIED UNCLASSIFIED 6 DUBININ AGAIN STRESSED THAT HE WAS FLOATING THE IDEA IN A PRELIMINARY WAY AND THAT THESE ISSUES WOULD MOST PROBABLY BE SETTLED ONLY WHEN GORB PLANE LANDED ON TUESDAY IF THAT WERE THE CASE MR ARMACOST SAID THERE WOULD BE NO POSSIBILITY OF A MEETING ON TUESDAY WE NEEDED TO HAVE AN ANSWER BEFORE THE SOVIET PLANE LANDED CONCEPT OF DECEMBER 7 MEETING 7 DUBININ WENT ON TO DISCUSS THE OF THE REAGAN-GORBACHEV MEETING IN NEW YORK THAT HE SAID HE HAD DERIVED IN CONVERSATION WITH MINISTER SHEVARDNADZE IN MOSCOW THERE WAS FIRST OF ALL THE QUESTION OF THE EFFECT THE MEETING WOULD HAVE ON PUBLIC OPINION AND PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS THERE WAS ALSO THE MEANING THAT WOULD BE ASCRIBED TO CHAIRMAN SPEECH AT THE SECRET SECRET PAGE 04 STATE 392038 UNITED NATIONS AND THE VERY FACT OF HIS MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT THE SOVIET SIDE DID NOT VIEW THE MEETING AS ONE WHERE MAJOR DECISIONS WOULD BE MADE THERE WOULD BE A -- BUT EVEN SUCH A CONVERSATION HAS ITS OWN CONCEPTUAL BASIS DUBININ SAID WITHOUT EXPECTING ANY BREAKTHROUGHS IN U S -SOVIET RELATIONS SHEVARDNADZE HAD SUGGESTED THAT THERE MIGHT BE A SHORT JOINT STATEMENT ISSUED ABOUT CONTINUITY IN THE RELATIONSHIP THE SOVIET SIDE WOULD BRING A DRAFT OF SUCH A DOCUMENT AND INVITED THE U S SIDE TO HAVE ONE OF ITS OWN PREPARED 8 AS FOR SPEECH TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DUBININ ADMITTED CANDIDLY THAT HE HAD NOT SEEN IT BUT PROMISED THAT IT WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT AND SUBSTANTIVE ONE ADDRESSED TO THE U N BUT IN THE TONE IT TOOK TOWARD U S -SOVIET RELATIONS 9 UNDER SECRETARY ARMACOST SAID THE SOVIET CONCEPT OF THE MEETING CLOSELY COINCIDED WTH OUR OWN ON THE OTHER HAND HE HAD NOT HEARD OF PLANS FOR A JOINT STATEMENT ONE COULD SIGNAL CONTINUITY BY BRIEFING THE IT WAS A QUESTION OF HOW FORMAL ONE WANTED TO BE ABOUT IT 10 MR SIMONS SAID THE U S SIDE ENVISAGED ANY JOINT STATEMENT AND WONDERED ALOUD HOW MUCH TIME IT WOULD TAKE TO NEGOTIATE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BRIEF UNCLASSIFIED PERIOD AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETINGS THE TIME SPENT ON THE JOINT STATEMENT AT THE MOSCOW SUMMIT AND WAS WARY OF TEXTS 11 DUBININ SAID HE WANTED TO BE SURE THAT HE WAS NOT MISUNDERSTOOD MINISTER SHEVARDNADZE HAD IN MIND NOT A SECRET SECRET PAGE 05 STATE 392038 LONG COMPLICATED STATEMENT BUT SOMETHING SHORT UNDER SECRETARY ARMACOST AGREED TO PASS THE IDEA ALONG TO SECRETARY SHULTZ ACTION REQUESTED OF EMBASSY MOSCOW 12 AMBASSADOR OR ADCM SHOULD AT THE EARLIEST OPPORTUNITY MAKE THE FOLLOWING POINTS TO AN APPROPRIATE INTERLOCUTOR AT THE SOVIET FOREIGN MINISTRY -- I ADVISED WASHINGTON THAT YOU HAD RAISED THE POSSIBILITY OF FOREIGN MINISTER SHEVARDNADZE AND THE SECRETARY MEETING THE EVENING OF DECEMBER 6 -- SINCE THEN AMBASSADOR DUBININ HAS SUGGESTED A MEETING THE MORNING OF DECEMBER 7 POSSIBLY AT 9 30 -- YOUR MISSION TO THE U N HAS MADE THE SAME SUGGESTION -- THE SCHEDULE IS VERY TIGHT -- THE SECRETARY HAD NOT PLANNED ON A MEETING AND WAS NOT SEEKING ONE HOWEVER IF MINISTER SHEVARDNADZE BELIEVES IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO MBE BEFORE THE LUNCHEON HE IS PREPARED TO DO SO -- ONE POSSIBILITY WOULD BE TO MEET THE EVENING OF THE SIXTH THE MEETING WOULD HAVE TO BE AT A TIME THAT WOULD PERMIT THE SECRETARY TO RETURN TO WASHINGTON AFTERWARDS HE WOULD THEN FLY UP AGAIN DECEMBER 7 -- A SECOND ALTERNATIVE -- PERHAPS MORE CONVENIENT FOR BOTH THE SECRETARY AND THE MINISTER -- WOULD BE TO MEET AS YOU HAVE NOW SUGGESTED THE MORNING OF DECEMBER 7 SINCE WE EXPECT MINISTER SHEVARDNADZE WILL WANT TO ACCOMPANY CHAIRMAN GORBACHEV TO HIS 10 00 AM MEETING WITH SECRET SECRET UNCLASSIFIED PAGE 06 STATE 392038 UNCLASSIFIED THE UN SECRETARY GENERAL WE SUGGEST THE MEETING BEGIN AT 8 30 -- GIVEN THE PROXIMITY OF THE U S MISSION TO THE U N HEADQUARTERS BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET WE FURTHER SUGGEST THAT THE MEETING TAKE PLACE THERE END POINTS SHULTZ SECRET END OF DOCUMENT UNCLASSIFIED This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu