UNCLASSIFIED WW 39913 SUBJECT The President s Luncheon with Gorbachev TIME AND PLACE December 7 1988 1 40 - 3 10 RELEASED IN FULL Commandant's Residence Governor's Sun Island New York 1 PARTICIPANTS m gas The President Chairman H S Gorbachev The Vice President Aleksandr Yakovlev George P Shultz Eduard Shevardnadze Colin Powell Anatoliy Chernayav Kenneth Duberstein Anatoliy Dobrynin Rosanne L Ridgway Yuriy Dubinin Jack I Hatlock Viktor Sukhodrev Nelson Ledsky notetaker notetaker Thomas w Simons Jr Georgiy Hamedov notetaker notetaker Dimitri Zarechnak Pavel Palazhchenko interpreter interpreter The President said they would again be facing five waves of press Gorbachev said he had just been told about the earthquake in Armenia 0n the ferry over he-had had a telephone conversation with Moscow The earthquake had also affected Azerbaijan and Georgia In Azerbaijan and Georgia however there had not been many casualties But in Armenia there had been much destruction It had registered 8 0 In Armenia Yerevan had not been hard-hit but elsewhere there was lots of destruction many losses of life casualties He had talked to who said one village had just disappeared While he had been in the house 9g - the island he had written a'teregram to the people of Armenia A government commission had been set up to assist people Life was all things together good and bad - The President said that with tragedies like this you sometimes got the feeling you were being warned we had recently had an earthquake in California The Vice President asked it there were any estimates of lives lost Gorbachev said there were not any yet but they had heard they went at least into the hundreds Shevardnadze commented that if a whole village was destroyed there would be at least that many The President asked if it were really true that a village had just disappeared into a hole in the earth Gorbachev said it was They would begin - relief work with the military forces that were already there The whole medical service would be used eventually all services would be involved a we UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE REVIEW AUTHORITY MARTIN MCLEAN UNCLASSIFIED ID 04 DEC 2009 200903790 a media representative asked the president what he thought of Gorbachev's troop cut preposal The President replied that it was not a proposal but a decision The same representative asked again what he thought of it The President replied that he heartily approved of it Another representative asked if the President would be doing the same thing The President said some adjustments might be called for if what Gorbachev had announced left us with superiority since we do not seek superiority A media representative asked the Vice President for his view The Vice President said he supported what the President had said Amid laughter Gorbachev said that was one of the best answers of the year The press had left and the Vice President commented that at least they had gone away In the quiet that followed Gorbachev said that the press would probably say the company was not very talkative It observed everything The Vice President commented that he had seen Gorbachev s speech on TV and he seemed to have had a full house with every seat filled Secretary Shultz said those in the seats had been very attentive Gorbachev said he had also noticed that when he was speaking and asked himself whether it was a good or a bad thing It was an unusual situation for him to have quiet when he talked -In the years of perestroika he had gotten used to having a response to everything he said The President said he had had the_same experience recently and then remembered that people were listening through earphones He had asked himself whether they were really listening or not Gorbachev replied that he had thought the same thing during his address The Secretary commented that when he had finished the burst of applause wasvgenuine Gorbachev said he wanted to stress that he was committed to what he had said at the UN and in front of the house they were in If we had succeeded in moving forward in these last three years it was only through common efforts and that was the only way for the future too The media had now departed and Dobrynin commented jovially that probably meant that dinner was over The President reported to the table that in the private meeting in the other room they had discussed some of the things that had gone into the changes of recent years He and the Vice President had made it plain that they approved of those changes What had taken place since 1985 in our relations had also improved relationships around the world And there was more to come He was pleased at the prospects for making more progress in all areas of our agenda And he noted he had not said dovieray no provieray once UNCLASSIFIED I Gorbachev replied that when people came to study the President's time in office someone would try to count up how many Russian proverbs the President knew Those he had heard from-the President showed he had selected them very carefully Gorbachev went on to say that in the Soviet Union people were so busy that they had no time to analyze things but in a larger context the President deserVed some kind of merit award for his knowledge of Russian proverbs People in the Soviet Union remembered the President's visit to their country very well _The President said he remembered it too he had only warm feelings for the reception he had gotten tron Gorbachev's people Turning to regional issues the President said the Soviet Union's role was important and we welcomed the role it had played in the process of achieving Namibian independence and the removal or foreign troops from Angola He hoped we could work on other regional issues in the same way Gorbachev replied that it might be important for him to recall a conversation he had had with Shultz They had been meeting on the eve of one of Shultz' visits to the Hiddle East with his plan They had exchanged views and he had said to Shultz that it was good the 0 8 had come to the conclusion that the Middle East problem could not be solved without the participation of the Soviet Union Now that the 0 3 had reached that conclusion the Soviets would make a constructive contribution in the Middle East They were for constructive cooperation on all problems including regional problems He wanted to make another general point Gorbachev went on He wanted the 0 5 not to be suspicious about th QYi t 0nion on regional issues -suspicious that the Soviet Union was intriguing against the 0 8 It was a good moment to make that point with the Vice President there When the Soviets talked about Asia and the Pacific or did something there it was not to harm the 0 8 If they did something in Europe it was not to create difficulties for the 0 8 to weaken its links with Western Europe His thought was that if both sides just continued as they had tor decades working against the other side nothing good would come of it Perhaps the President had the impression he thought he was some kind of saint Gorbachev continued That was not the case there were real contradictions between the two countries But they had real interests in common as well Tho'problem was what to do what conclusions to draw in this situation His conclusion was that the two sides should continue along the same track The Soviets saw no advantage to themselves in weakening 0 5 security They saw no advantage in causing an upheaval in the UNCLASSIFIED JN LASSIFIED I- world economy That would be bad for the U S but it would be bad for them too Let us therefore move beyond the subject matter and the conditions of the 1940 s and 1950's Gorbachev said we had been able to achieve something And looking at both the President and the Vice President he could say that continuity was the name of the game today He was not building castles in the area He was not operating on the basis of illusions but of real policy we should therefore be able to work together on all regional problems in a constructive way Gorbachev continued If the next President had studies underway and had some remarks or suggestions on these issues he would like to hear from him He might respond with some remarks or suggestions of his own He especially supported-the remark in favor of the tradition that Shevardnadze and Shultz had been able to establish He hoped no one would be offended if he said that the tradition he wanted Baker to establish with Shevardnadze was one that bureaucrats by themselves were not up to All the forces we have at our disposal should be deployed to improving Soviet-American relations He understood what the Vice President had said to mean that the Vice President understood the importance of the relationship between the two countries The President noted that there were still differences between them Krasnoyarsk for instance was unresolved At the same time he thought they agreed on the need to wipe out chemical weapons in the future Gorbachev replied that he thought he had put an end to the Krasnoyarsk problem It had been transferred from the military to the scientists The task was to make things easier for the new President and as- a result they had given it to the scientists The Secretary said he-had listened to the portion of Gorbachev's address concerning Krasnoyarsk and noted that the word Gorbachev had used had been translated as Gorbachev replied with a smile that he bet the Secretary had written that down He said he could confirm the translation It was another victory for the Secretary The important thing was to make life easier for the next President The Vice President interjected that there were other areas he could do'that for if that was what'he had in mind Gorbachev responded jocularly that the Vice President was probably thinking what else he could ask for The Secretary suggested helping and the budget deficit Gorbachev said the Soviets could not solve our budget deficit problem and we could not solve theirs but working together could help with both UNCLASSIFIED This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu