is ASS i f1lIPTTr iTT Al PAGE 0565 INQUIRE DOC7D ITEM N0 00004774 ENVELOPE MCN 88344 28471 CDSN LGX137 TOR 883441835 OTTCZYUW RUEKJCS7431 3441836-CCCC--RUEALGX ZNY CCCCC HEADER 0 0918362 DEC 88 FM JCS WASHINGTON DC INFO RUEADWD OCSA WASHINGTON DC RUENAAA CNO WASHINGTON DC RUEAHQA CSAoF WASHINGTON DC RUEADWD PTC WASH DC RUSNNOA USCINCEUR VAIHINGEN GE RUFGAID USEUCOM AIDES VAIHINGEN GE RUEAMCC CMC CC WASHINGTON DC RUCLAKA CDR4THPSYOP GP FT BRAGG NC ASOF-POG-SB RUCIAEA FTD WRIGHT PATTERSON AFB OH SIIR RUCGNTT NATS PENTAGON WASH DC RUEALGX SAFE 0 091555Z DEC 88 FM AMEMBASSY ROME TO RUEHC SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 7523 INFO RUEKJCS SECDEF WASHDC RUEKJCS JCS WASHDC RUEHDD NATO COLLECTIVE RUFHMB USMISSION USVIENNA 0201 ET CONTROLS C 0 N F I D E-N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 ROME 27431 USVIENNA FOR MANDATE C 0 mw cn 8 E Q 2356 DECL OADR THIS IS A COMBINED MESSAGE BODY TAGS PREL PARM US IT SUBJECT AMBASSADOR NITZE'S DECEMBER 6-7 VISIT TO ROME 1 CONFIDENTIAL - ENTIRE TEXT AMBASSADOR PAUL NITZE VISITED ROME 2 SUMMARY DECEMBER 6-7 AND MET WITH PRIME MINISTER DE MITA FOREIGN MINISTER ANDREOTTI AND DEFENSE MINISTER ZANONE THE ITALIAN LEADERS SOUGHT NITZE'S VIEWS ON PROSPECTS FOR CONVENTIONAL STABILITY TALKS AND FOR THE BUSH PLANS TO NEGOTIATE A START AGREEMENT ADMINISTRATION ALONG CURRENT LINES DE MITA RECALLED THAT GORBACHEV HAD PRESSED HARD DURING HIS RECENT VISIT TO MOSCOW FOR AN EARLY AGREEMENT ON CONVENTIONAL REDUCTIONS DE MITA WONDERED WHETHER AN EARLY AGREEMENT WAS POSSIBLE r ZZ i _ 01 PAGE 0566 BUT SAID HE CAME AWAY FROM MOSCOW FEELING THAT CST NEGOTIATIONS WOULD TAKE LONGER THAN HE RAISED SEVERAL ISSUES DISCUSSED AT THE EXPECTED ZANONE RECENT DPC EMPHASIZING THE DIFFICULTIES IN MAINTAINING DEFENSE SPENDING LEVELS CAUSED BY THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF A DIMINISHED SOVIET THREAT ANDREOTTI PRESSED FOR AN EARLY CONCLUSION OF THE VIENNA CSCE CONFERENCE AND THE BEGINNING OF NEW CST TALKS EVEN IF IT MEANT MAKING COMPROMISES WITH THE NEUTRAL AND NON-ALIGNED WHILE HE PRAISED NATO AS A SOLID AND BALANCED ORGANIZATION IN DIFFICULT TIMES HE WORRIED THAT THE EVENTUAL NEED TO NEGOTIATE ON BRITISH AND FRENCH NUCLEAR PROVOKE DEEP DIVISIONS IN EUROPE SYSTEMS WOULD END SUMMARY MEETING WITH DE MITA 3 ACCOMPANIED BY AMBASSADOR RABB AMBASSADOR PAUL NITZE MET FOR FORTY-FIVE MINUTES DECEMBER 6 WITH PRIME MINISTER CIRIACO DE MITA DE MITA CONGRATULATED NITZE ON RECEIVING NATO'S ATLANTIC AWARD IN BRUSSELS THE DAY BEFORE RESPONDING TO NITZE'S SUMMARY OF HIS SPEECH IN BRUSSELS DE MITA PRESSED NITZE TO ELABORATE ON THE PROBLEMS HE SEES FACING NATO IN THE FUTURE NITZE BEGAN WITH THE BUDGETARY PROBLEMS FACING THE U S AND THE NEED FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION TO MAKE SOME KEY DEFENSE SPENDING DECISIONS BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH ARMS CONTROL DECISIONS PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO PROGRAMS INVOLVING ICBM SURVIVABILITY NITZE ALSO OUTLINED THE REMAINING ISSUES TO BE RESOLVED IN THE START AND DEFENSE AND SPACE TALKS 4 DE MITA SAID THAT HE HAD NOTICED IN HIS OFFICIAL TRAVELS IN EUROPE THAT THE PROSPECT OF NEGOTIATING FURTHER REDUCTIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IS CAUSING WIDESPREAD WORRY HE HAD THE IMPRESSION THAT MANY IN EUROPE FELT FURTHER NUCLEAR REDUCTIONS BEFORE CONVENTIONAL STABILIZATION WAS UNWISE NITZE REPLIED BY EMPHASIZING THAT REDUCTIONS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS PER SE WAS NOT NECESSARILY GOOD TO BE TRULY STABILIZING NUCLEAR REDUCTIONS HAD TO REDUCE THE RISK TO NATO AND IMPRrIE SURVIVABILITY OF OUR OWN SYSTEMS 5 NITZE CONTINUED THAT THE U S NEED TO PUT FULL PRESSURE ON THE FULLY AGREED THAT WE SOVIETS ONCE THE NEW CONVENTIONAL STABILITY TALKS BEGIN AT THE SAME TIME WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT PROGRESS IN CST SHOULD BE MADE CONDITIONAL ON OTHER NEGOTIATIONS PARTICULARLY START NOR DO WE BELIEVE THAT THE WEST SHOULD GO BEYOND THE CURRENT FIFTY PERCENT REDUCTIONS IN STRATEGIC SYSTEMS ENVISIONED IN START UNTIL WE CAN REACH A CONVENTIONAL PAGE 0567 NITZE EXPRESSED HOPE THAT STABILIZATION AGREEMENT NATO COULD REACH AGREEMENT WITH THE SOVIETS ON START IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO BUT HE CAUTIONED THAT IT WAS HARD TO IMAGINE REACHING A CONCRETE RESULT IN CST IN LESS THAN TWO-THREE YEARS 6 DE MITA REPLIED THAT GORBACHEV HAD IMPRESSED UPON HIM DURING HIS RECENT VISIT TO MOSCOW THE SOVIET DESIRE TO REACH A GREEMENT ON A CONVENTIONAL TREATY QUICKLY DE MITA SAID THAT HE HAD THE IMPRESSION THE NEGOTIATION WOULD BE A LONG AND DIFFICULT ONE PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THE SOVIETS-DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS REAL HOWEVER HE HAD HEARD THAT THE CONVENTIONAL INSTABILITY SOVIETS MIGHT BE PREPARED TO REACH AN AGREEMENT IN THE SHOULDN'T WE TRY TO SEIZE THE 1989-1990 TIME FRAME OPPORTUNITY 7 NITZE RESPONDED THAT IF GORBACHEV IS SO ANXIOUS TO BEGINNING OF SECTION 002 CONCLUDE A QUICK CONVENTIONAL ARMS AGREEMENT HE HASN'T MADE IT VERY EASY IN REACHING AN AGREEMENT ON THE CST MANDATE IN VIENNA THE SOVIETS HAVE RESISTED MOVEMENT IN VIENNA ON KEY HUMAN RIGHTS DEMANDS OF THE WEST NITZE EXPRESSED THE HOPE THAT WE COULD SOON REACH AN ACCORD ON A CST MANDATE NOTING THAT WE HAVE HAD DIFFICULTIES WITH THE FRENCH ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CST AND CSCE WHICH DE MITA READILY ACKNOWLEDGED BY NITZE ALSO HOPED ROLLING HIS EYES TOWARD THE CEILING NATO COULD SOON CONCLUDE ITS EFFORTS TO PREPARE AN ALLIANCE GOING-IN POSITION FOR THE NEW CST TALKS DE MITA SAID HE UNDERSTOOD NITZE'S POINTS WASN'T 8 IT ALSO TRUE HOWEVER THAT THE SOVIETS HAVE A PROBLEM IN REDUCING EXPENDITURES BEFORE THEY WORK OUT THEIR IT WAS IN THIS SENSE NEXT FIVE YEAR PLAN 1990-1995 THAT HE THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE GREATER INCENTIVE FOR THE SOVIETS TO NEGOTIATE SERIOUSLY IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE HE RECALLED THAT IN THEIR MOSCOW MEETING GORBACHEV HAD GONE ON AND ON IN DESCRIBING BOTH THE NEED TO REDUCE SOVIET MILITARY SPENDING AND THE POINTS HE HAD MADE TO PRESIDENT REAGAN ON CONVENTIONAL ARMS NEGOTIATIONS DE MITA SAID THAT HE HAD NOT BEEN PREPARED TO DISCUSS CONVENTIONAL ARMS IN SUCH DETAIL WITH GORBACHEV BUT CAME AWAY FROM THE MEETING WITH THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CST NEGOTIATIONS WOULD TAKE LONGER THAN HE HAD PREVIOUSLY EXPECTED MEETING WITH ZANONE 1 'T At PAGE 0568 LATER THE SAME EVENING NITZE CALLED ON DEFENSE 9 MINISTER VALERIO ZANONE WHO BEGAN THE DISCUSSION BY REFLECTING ON THE RECENTLY COMPLETED DPC MEETING IN THERE WAS MUCH DISCUSSION HE SAID ON THE BRUSSELS NATO COMPREHENSIVE CONCEPT ON ARMS CONTROL MOST OF COMPLEX BUT VERY LITTLE OF IT ADDRESSING THE KEY IT QUESTIONS FACING NATO NITZE SAID HE HAD JUST BEEN IN BONN AND EVERYONE HAD A DIFFERENT VIEW OF THE COMPREHENSIVE CONCEPT NONE WERE REALLY COMPREHENSIVE EVERYONE WAS FOCUSSED ON THE SPECIFIC ISSUE OF SNF MODERNIZATION ZANONE SAID HE HAD THE IMPRESSION FROM DISCUSSIONS 10 ON THE MARGINS OF THE DPC THAT THERE IS SOME UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE PROSPECT FOR GREATER EUROPEAN SECURITY COOPERATION AND U S -EUROPEAN COOPERATION WHAT DID NITZE THINK NITZE RECALLED THAT HE HAD ALWAYS LOOKED ON THE ATLANTIC ALLIANCE ON THE BASIS OF THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT OF ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE HE REVIEWED THE EVOLUTION OF THAT APPROACH AND STRESSED THE IMPORTANCE TO AMERICAN PUBLIC OPINION OF THE FACT THAT NATO IS BASED ON RECIPROCITY AND NOT SIMPLY A U S GUARANTEE OF EUROPEAN SECURITY 11 ZANONE SAID HE HAD ALSO DETECTED CONSIDERABLE UNCERTAINTY IN BRUSSELS ON THE QUESTION OF THE FLANKS IN THE CST TALKS THE TURKS WERE PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE HE ALSO ASKED FOR NITZE'S ASSESSMENT OF THE CST TALKS NITZE REPLIED THAT U S CONVENTIONAL ARMS EXPERTS ARE GENERALLY SATISFIED WITH THE EVOLUTION OF THE NATO SUBSTANTIVE PROPOSAL FOR THE CST TALKS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DEALING WITH TURKISH CONCERNS NITZE SAID THAT PROGRESS IN CST WILL DEPEND ON GORBACHEV'S OWN VIEWS AND THE SUPPORT HE RECEIVES FROM THE MILITARY TO TEST THE SOVIETS WE NEED CLARITY AND UNITY ON OUR SIDE FRANKLY WE STILL HAD PROBLEMS THE FLANK ISSUE RAISED BY ZANONE AS WELL AS FRENCH DEMANDS TO MAINTAIN SOME INDEPENDENCE FROM THE BLOC-TO-BLOC NEGOTIATING CONCEPT 12 ZANONE SAID THAT THE MOST DELICATE PROBLEM AT THE DPC HAD BEEN THE QUESTION OF PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS OF THE USSR AND OF A DIMINISHING SOVIET THREAT FULLY NINETY PERCENT OF THE DISCUSSION AMONG MINISTERS AT THE OPENING DINNER HAD BEEN OF THE EUROPEAN PUBLIC PERCEPTION THAT THE THREAT HAD DECREASED MASS COMMUNICATION IS NOW OVERWHELMING POLITICIANS' ABILITIES TO LEAD POLITICAL OPINION IT IS DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN SUPPORT FOR DEFENSE SPENDING SINCE BEGINNING OF SECTION 003 PARLIAMENTS ARE BECOMING INFECTED WITH THE SENSE OF A DIMINISHED THREAT NATO'S RECENT STUDY ON THE CONVENTIONAL IMBALANCE WAS RIGHT ON TARGET BUT IT WILL NOT CONTAIN THE CURRENT TREND WE SIMPLY CANNOT LET GORBACHEV SUCCEED IN TAKING THE INITIATIVE AWAY FROM US AND CONSTANTLY 13 PUTTING US ON THE DEFENSIVE NITZE AGREED AND SAID THE PROBLEM WAS MOST WORRISOME IN GERMANY SOME POLITICIANS THERE THINK THAT THEY CAN WIN VOTES BY GOING ALONG WITH THE NOTION THAT THE ARMS CONTROL PROBLEMS ARE ESSENTIALLY SOLVED AND ALL THAT REMAINS IS TO SIGN AGREEMENTS THE REALITY IS THAT MUCH WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE TO NEGOTIATE AGREEMENTS WHICH TRANSLATE HOPES INTO CONCRETE REALITIES 14 ZANONE CITED THE RELOCATION OF THE 401ST AS A CONCRETE EXAMPLE OF THE PROBLEM IN ITALY THE ITALIAN GOVERNMENT HAD BEEN UNITED IN FAVOR OF THE RELOCATION DECISION AND THE PARLIAMENT HAD BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY IN FAVOR THIS HAS NOT STOPPED HOWEVER CONTINUOUS COMMENT IN POLITICAL CIRCLES IN ITALY TO THE EFFECT THAT PERHAPS WE OUGHT TO NEGOTIATE A WHILE BEFORE BRINGING THE AIRPLANES TO ITALY THIS ARGUMENT COMES NOT JUST FROM THE LEFT BUT FROM THE CATHOLIC WORLD AND THE UNIONS POPULAR ORGANIZATIONS WHICH HAVE AN IMPACT ON GOVERNMENT PARTIES NITZE SAID HE HOPED THAT THE ITALIAN GOVERNMENT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN OVERCOMING THOSE CONCERNS TO WHICH ZANONE RESPONDED THAT THERE WAS NO QUESTION THE 401ST RELOCATION DECISION WAS A VITALLY IMPORTANT DECISION FOR ALL OF NATO 15 AFTER BRIEFLY SHARING CONCERNS ABOUT THE MEDITERRANEAN ZANONE RAISED AMERICAN CONCERNS ABOUT EUROPEAN POLICY POST 1992 AND ASKED NITZE'S VIQWS NITZE SAID THE ROOT AMERICAN CONCERN WAS ABOUT THE GROWTH OF A EUROPE FOR EUROPE SENTIMENT AMERICANS WORRIED ABOUT AN ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH EUROPEANS WERE FREE TO CAPITALIZE ON THE EXCLUSION OF THE U S AND JAPAN FROM THE EUROPEANQMARKET ASKED SPECIFICALLY#BY ZANONE WHAT EUROPE COULD DO TO CLARIFQ BETTER ITS POSITION FOR THE AMERICANS EMBASSY POL MIL COUNSELOR SUGGESTED CONCRETE DEEDS AND NOT JUST WORDS HE NOTED THAT AMBASSADOR RABB WAS AT THAT MOMENT WITH ATTORNEY GENERAL THORNBURG WERE HE PRESENT HE WOULD ANSWER ZANONE'S QUESTION BY STRONGLY URGING ITALY TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF ACQUIRING HUGHES RADAR TECHNOLOGY FOR THE NEW EUROPEAN FIGHTER WHEN THE ISSUE COMES UP SOON IN THE EUROPEAN FIGHTER CONSORTIUM THIS WOULD SEND A STRONG SIGNAL OF U S -EUROPEAN COOPERATION AS WE MOVE TOWARD 1992 AND BEYOND PAGE 0569 PAGE O570 MEETIG WITH ANDREOTTI 76 FOREIGN MINISTER ANDREOTTI EGAN THE SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION OF HIS DECEMBER 7 MEETING WITH NITZE BY ASKIF3 WHETHER THE MEETING BETWEEN PRESIDENT REAGAN AND GORBA HEV THAT SAME DAY WOULD MARK A CONCRETE STEP FORWAi D IN-U S -USSR RELATIONS NITZE REPLIED THAT THE MEETING WAS NOT ENVISAGED AS A NEGOTIATION PARTICULARLY ON ARMS CONTROL ISSUES BUT SECRETARY SCHULTZ DID INTEND TO RAISE HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES PROGRESS ON HUMAN RIGHTS SHOULD BE EASY FOR THE SOVIETS THEY NEED TO -ACT SO THAT WE CAN CONCLUDE VIENNA AGREE ON THE CST MANDATE AND BEGIN COQVENTIONAL NEGOTIATIONS 17 ANDREOTTI SAID THAT MITTERAND HAD BEEN TOLD BY GORBACHEV IN MOSCOW THAT IT WAS NOT NECESSARY NOW TO DECIDE ON CONVENING A MOSCOW HUMAN RIGHTS CONFERENCE ANDREOTTI SAID IT WAS HISQPERSONAL VIEW THAT WE SHOULD HOLD OUT THE PROSPECT OF A CONFERENCE BUT IF THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT RIGHT AT THE TIME IT IS TO BE CONVENED WE CAN MANAGE AND FACE THE ISSUE AT THAT TIME 18 ON CONVENTIONAL NEGOTIATIONS ANDREOTTI SAID WE NEED TO FIND A FORMULA WHICH DOES NOT HUMILIATE THE NON-ALIGNED AND NEUTRALS PARTICULARLY AUSTRIA AND SWITZERLAND WHICH HAVE PLAYED A USEFUL ROLE IN VIENNA THE MOST IMPORTANT THING NOW IS TO CONCLUDE VIENNA AND BEGINNING OF SECTION 004 BEGIN THE CONVENTIONAL TALKS BOTH DCM HOLMES AND MFA DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR NEGROTTO THEN QUICKLY INTERVENED TO CLARIFY FOR ANDREOTTI THAT A FRAMEWORK FOR MANAGING THE CST CSCE QUESTION SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT OF WHICH ANDREOTTI WAS CLEARLY UNAWARE NITZE ADDED THAT THE PROBLEM HAD REALLY BEEN THE FRENCH AND NOT THE NNA 19 ANDREOTTI SEIZED ON NITZE'S STATEMENT TO SAY THAT THE TRUE PROBLEM WITH THE FRENCH AND THE BRITISH WAS THEIR NUCLEAR ARMAMENTS ANDREOTTI SAID HE BELIEVED SOMEDAY WE WILL HAVE TO FACE THE NEED TO NEGOTIATE ON THESE SYSTEMS NEITHER THE BRITISH NOR FRENCH WANT TO FACE THE PROBLEM ANDREOTTI SAID HE FEARED THAT WHEN THE ISSUE IS ENGAGED IN THE FUTURE THE ISSUE OF BRITISH AND FRENCH SYSTEMS WILL PROVOKE GREAT DIVISIONS IN EUROPE NITZE COMMENTED THAT ONE OF THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE REYKJAVIK SUMMIT HAD BEEN OBTAINING SOVIET AGREEMENT NOT TO INCLUDE BRITISH AND FRENCH SYSTEMS IN THE 50 PERCENT REDUCTIONS AGREED TO FOR START N AL PAGE 0571 ANDREOTTI SAID NITZE WAS RIGHT 20 NEW BUSH ADMINISTRATION WOULD NOT HE HOPED THAT THE ALTER THE POSITION OF THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION ON START WE NEED TO MOVE AHEAD AND REACH AGREEMENT ON A FIFTY PERCENT CUT IN STRATEGIC FORCES NITZE SAID THAT PRESIDENT-ELECT BUSH HAD FOLLOWED THE ARMS CONTROL NEGOTIATIONS CLOSELY AND DISCUSSED ARMS CONTROL ISSUES IN EUROPEAN CAPITALS NITZE WAS CONFIDENT THAT THE PRESIDENT-ELECT WILL FOLLOW THROUGH IN A SENSIBLE WAY ANDREOTTI CONGRATULATED NITZE ON RECEIVING THE NATO 21 ATLANTIC AWARD WHEN NITZE PRESENTED HIM A COPY OF HIS SPEECH ANDREOTTI COMMENTED THAT NATO HAD PROVED IN DIFFICULT TIMES TO BE A SOLID AND VERY BALANCED ORGANNITZE AGREED AND SAID THAT ITALY AND ANDREOTTI IZAT JN PERSO 'ALLY HAD DONE A GREAT DEAL TO PROMOTE NATO NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WAS THE ITALIAN ROLE IN BACKING THE GERMANS AT KEY DECISION POINTS SUCH AS INF DEPLOYMENT 22 ANDREOTTI CONCLUDED THE DISCUSSION BY RECALLING THAT THE ITALIAN GOVERNMENT HAD CREATED IN THE ITALIAN POPULACE AN AWARENESS OF THE PROBLEMS OF SECURITY THE ITALIAN PEOPLE KNOW THE GOVERNMENT IS IN FAVOR OF DIALOGUE THEREFORE WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT AND PEACE SOMETHING IS NECESSARY TO FOSTER THIS GOAL SUCH AS DEPLOYMENTS AT COMISO OR MORE RECENTLY ACCEPTING THE F-16 RELOCATION AT CROTONE THE PEOPLE ARE AWARE AND RABB ACCEPT THE GOVERNMENT'S DECISION ADMIN BT #7431 NNNN This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu