No Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 INFO DOM-1 I s' CHRON DUMMY 916 00 RUEHC DE RUEHNE #4168 61 1551217 ZNY ZZH CLASS SECRET 0 6312162 JUN 83 AME 66 63 38 FM AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI APPRV T0 SECSTATE HASHDC IMMEDIATE 3354 RT CLEAR SECTION 01 OF 63 NEW DELHI 14163 DISTR NODI ORGIN OCR Ems nos REVIEWED 19-Apr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on 11441 6 Ina N0 Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 NLC-131-6-1-2-6 No Objection To Declass cation 2008 06 06 NLC-131-6-1-2-6 d- WONDERED WHETHER ELECTIONS WOULD BE HELD IN PAKISTAN WITHIN THE 99 DAYS PROMISED BY ZIA BUT EVEN IF ELECTIONS HERE HELD THEY BE HELD UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE ARMED HOV SECURE WOULD ANY NEH PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER FEEL AFTER NHAT HAPPENED TO THE NEW PRIME MINISTER FEEL THAT IF HE GETS TOO FAR OUT OF LINE THE SAME FATE AWAITS HIM THAT JUNEJO MET ON MAY 28 AS ALL COUNTRIES WILL BE WATCHING WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IN ISLAMABAD AND WHETHER THE ELECTION PROMISE HILL ACTUALLY BE FULFILLED 6 THE PRIME MINISTER THEN TURNED TO AFGHANISTAN HE EXPRESSED THE ROPE THAT ALL SOVIET TROOPS WOULD BE WITHDRAWN FROM AFGHANISTAN ALONG THE LINES GORBACHEV HAD ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY ON FEBRUARY 8 THE NITHDRANAL OF THE SOVIET TROOPS HAS AFTER ALL THE GOAL OF THE AFGHAN AGREEMENTS AND THIS WAS AS MUCH IN THE INTEREST OF PAKISTAN AS IT WAS IN THE INTEREST OF INDIA THE AMERICAN AID PROGRAM TO PAKISTAN AND PARTICULARLY CERTAIN KINDS OF NLAPONRY MADE SENSE AS LONG AS THE SOVIETS HERE IN AFGHANISTAN BUT ONCE THE SOVIETS ARE NO LONGER THERE THE JUSTIFICATION FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF WEAPONRY NO LONGER HAS THE SAME BASIS GANDHI SAID THAT BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND INDIA SHARED A COMMON GOAL OF SOVIET NITHDRANAL FROM WHAT FOLLOWS IN AFGHANISTAN SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE AFGHANS TO SORT OUT FOR THEMSELVES T AJIV ITH NAJIB LAH BECAUSE I THH FUNDAMENT 5 J1 AR IN THH IN OHEHETIVH NAJIBULLAH EAD ITREME FUNDAHE TALISTS A - I s 0 KABU In A CAN - ornco i N l nlfi -r AL NONILAR THH PRIME MINISTER To NHHT EIT ISLAN ZATION WITHIN PAKISTAN AND SUPPORT FOR THE EXTREME AFGHAN FUNDAMENTALISTS WAS NOT ONE CONSIDERATION IN DECISION T0 DISMISS THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IN ISLAMABAD NEEDELHI No Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 5 'c E - SECNO Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 NLC-131-6-1-2-6 THE PRIME MINISTER TEEN TURNED T0 U S -INDIAN RELATIONS HE OPINED THAT INDO-U s RELATIONS HAD MADE GREAT PROGRESS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS EVER HE VISITED VASEINCTON IN JUNE OR 1935 HE SAID NE HAVE COME A VERI LONG VAI IN A SHORT PERIOD OE TIME VB ARE NOT ONLY ABLE TO WORK MORE TOGETHER ON HIGH TECHNOLOGI BUT HE CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER IN ALL AREAS NE CAN AGREE AND DISAGREE BUT WE TAKE EACH VIEVS INTO ACCOUNT IS NO MORE SCHISM BETVEEN US ME ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE VITH EACH OTHER AND WE HAVE LAID THE GROUNDNORE FOR A GROVING RELATIONSHIP NE HAVE NOREED TOGETHER ON ANTI-DRUG WE HAVE VORRED TOGETHER ON VE HAVE EORKED TOGETHER ON VB RAVE VORRED TOGETHER ON AND INDIA IS BECOMING AN INCREASINGLI MORE IMPORTANT CUSTOMER OE AMERICAN AGRICULTURAL COMMODITIES NE HAVE LEARNED TO AVOID CCNERONTATION AND HE CAN CERTAINLI CONTINUE TO MAKE A LOT MORE PROGRESS 9 THE PRIME MINISTER INDICATED THAT THE INCREASING EMPHASIS BY ZIA 0F ISLAMIZATION IN PAKISTAN AND PERHAPS IN AFGHANISTAN SHOULD MAKE US THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF THE RISE OF ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM WAS THE CHINESE DECISION TO PROVIDE SILKUORM TO IRAN REALLY IN WESTERN INTEREST OR FOR THAT MATTER THE BECISION BY THE SAUDIS T0 PROCURE THE MISSILE FROM CHINA A MOVE TOWARDS STABILITY FOR THAT PART OF THE AND NOW WHAT WOULD BE OUR REACTION IF PAKISTAN JOINED TRIS GROUP OF ISLAMIC NATIONS IN PROCURINC SUCH EINALLE MADE BT PAKISTAN IN THE NUCL VEAP NS PROGR AN IN MARING POLICY DECISIONS IN THE MONTHS To COME 10 THE PRIME MINISTER NEXT DISCUSSED THE MOOD IN INEIA TOWARDS THE UNITED STATES HE POINTED OUT THAT MAJOR PROGRESS HAD BEEN MADE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS THE UNITED STATES IS ACCEPTED TODAY AS A LEADING TRADING PARTNER A LEADING PARTNER IN SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY THE MAJOR INVESTOR IN INDIA AND GENERALLY SPEAKING THE ATMOSPHERE HAS IMPROVED TO THE POINT WHERE THE U S IS NO LONGER SEEN AS A THREAT PUT RATHER ONE OF THE LEADING FORCES WITH WHICH INDIA WORKS IN NEARLY ALL FIELDS IT IS A GREAT CHANGE FROM THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE 19705 I1 GANDHI SAID THAT WHEN HE CAME TO POWER BECAUSE OF THE ASSASSINATION OF HIS MOTHER THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA DECIDED ON TVO COURSES NORMALIEATION OE RELATIONS A Emu VITH THE UNITED STATES AND ALSO INCREASING THE RELA- Au TIONSBIP RITE THE SOVIET UNION THERE VAR A CERTAIN gm OR IN RELATIONSHIP VITH THESE THO SUPERPOVTRS GANDHI THAT SO TAR THESE TVO OBJECTIVES HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED AND HE HOPES THAT THIS TREND WILL CONTINUE IN THE MONTHS AND TEARS AHEAD IF ONE OR THE TVO SUPERPOVERS REDUCES ITS COOPERATION n mung-r No Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 NLC-131-6-1-2-6 o No Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 WITH INDIA THE OTHER SIDE WILL UNDOUHTEDLY BENEFIT I THIS IS CERTAINLY IN INTEREST WHICH WISHES T0 MAINTAIN BALANCE WITH THE SUPERPONERS 12 THE PRIME MINISTER TOOK NOTE OF THE U S -SOVIET SUMMIT MEETING AND ITS IMPACT ON THE WORLD SCENE IF THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION CAN FIND WAYS OF REDUCING DIFFERENCES SURELY OTHER COUNTRIES SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME IN THEIR QUARRELS HE ALSO NOTED THE SOVIET UNION HAD MADE AN EFFORT TO REDUCE DIFFERENCES WITH CHINA AND THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP NAS ALSO CHANGING HE INDICATED THAT HE WAS GIVING SERIOUS THOUGHT TO VISITING CHINA IN THE AUTUMN IN AN EFFORT T0 ETPLORE WAYS OF REDUCING INDO-CHINESE TENSIONS HE ASKED ME TO HOLD THIS INFORMATION VERY CLOSELY INDIA WOULD ALSO TRY TO FIND WAYS OF AVOIDING A DETERIORATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITH PAKISTAN BUT THE VISIT OF PAKISTAN FOREIGN SECRETARY SATTAR HAD NOT LED TO ANY BREAKTHROUGH INDIA REMAINS DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT INABILITY TO STOP AIDING TERRORISTS IN THE PUNJAB 13 THE CONVERSATION THEN TURNED TO MORE SPECIFIC ISSUES I ASKED THE PRIME MINISTER POINT BLANK WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA HAD CHANGED ITS POSITION ON THE PROCUREMENT OF A SOVIET MAINSTAY AIRCRAFT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THE INDIAN POSITION REMAINS WHAT HE TOLD ME SOME MONTHS AGO NEWDELHI @14168 62 No Objection To Declassi cation 2008 06 06 3 33cm 12 9%ch I E THAT THE PROCUREMENT OF A SOTIET TYPE OE ANACS HAS NOT REPEAT NOT EVEN DISCUSSED IN THE INDIAN CAEINET AND THAT CERTAINLY NO REPEAT NO DECISIONS HATE TAKEN FIRST OF ALL INDIA IS STRAPPED FINANCIALLY ANI NILL ONLI LOOK FOR SUCH EISE TECUNOLOCI ITEMS IF PAKISTAN PROCURES THE AMERICAN AERIAL EAELI WARNING SYSTEM EUT AS LONG AS PAKISTAN MAKE A MOVE ON THIS FRONT INDIA CERTAINLY NILL NOT INITIATE SUCH AN AEMS RACE II PAKISTAN PROCURES AN AWACS AT THIS TIME TITS THE SOTIETS NITHDEANINC EEOM AFGHANISTAN THEN INDIA MUST ASSUME THAT AWACS TILL EE PROCURED BY PAKISTAN ACAINST INDIA INDIA COULD NOT UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES EENAIN INDIFFERENT 14 I THEN ASKED THE PRIME MINISTER ABOUT PLANS FOR THE PROCUREMENT OF A TRAINING AIRCRAFT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THAT THE INDIAN AIR FORCE IS CONSIDERING A BRITISH AND FRENCH OFFER BUT INDIA HAS BALANCE OF PAYMENTS PROBLEMS I ASKED WHETHER INDIA WOULD CONSIDER AN OFFER BY THE UNITED STATES FOR THE MANUFACTURING IN INDIA OF THE F-5 TRAINER THE TOOLS I HAD BEEN TOLD IN WASHINGTON ARE THE PROPERTY OF THE U S GOVERNMENT AND WE MIGHT BE WILLING TO MAKE AN OFFER TO THE INDIANS UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES THE PRIME MINISTER REPLIED THAT AN AMERICAN OFFER WOULD CERTAINLY BE CONSIDERED ON AN EQUAL FOOTING WITH ANY OTHER OFFER BUT THAT ONE NEW CRITERIA WOULD BE THE IMPACT OF SUCH A PURCHASE ON BALANCE OF PAYMENTS IF THE FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS ARE INTERESTING THERF ARE CERTAINLY NO POLITICAL OBSTACLES FOR INDIA TO TURN DOWN A SERIOUS UNITED STATES OFFER 15 THE LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES WERE DEVOTED TO A LISCUSSION OF THE SUPERCOMPUTER THE PRIME MINISTER WAS HAPPY TO NOTE THAT THE ARRANGEMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE FIRST SUPERCOMPUTER FROM AMERICA HAD BEEN FINALIZED AND THAT SHIPMENT WAS SCHEDULED TO TAKE PLACE THIS FALL HE HOPED THAT WE COULD START NEGOTIATIONS WITHOUT DELAY ON A SECOND SUPERCOMPUTER THIS TIME FOR THE INDIAN INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE IN BANGALORE AFTER ALL HE POINTED OUT IT TOOK MORE THAN A YEAR AND A HALF AFTER THE NEGOTIATION OF THE AGREEMENT TO COMPLETE THE ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE ACTUAL SALE OF THE COMPUTER IF WE STARTED NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE COMPUTER NOW HE REALIZED THE DELIVERY OBVIOUSLY WOULD NOT BE RIGHT AWAY 16 HE SAID HE LOOKED FORWARD TO SEEING ME AFTER HIS RETURN FROM HIS TRAVELS SOMETIME AFTER JUNE 12 DEAN RT #4158 NEWDELHI @14168 63 N0 Objection To Declassi cation NLC-131-6-1-2-6 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu