Rd _w 9183 THE WHITE HOUSE MOMS-SEED - 00 WASHINGTON $313 67 Cr MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION 653% 7g NARA SUBJECT Working Luncheon with General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev PARTICIPANTS The President The Vice President Secretary of State Shultz Secretary of Defense Carlucci Chief of Staff Baker Director Wick United States Information Agency Colin L Powell Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Aesistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Ridgeway U S Ambassador to the Soviet Union Jack F Matlock Mark Parris Director Office of Soviet Union Affairs Department of State Notetaker John Herbst Director Office for Policy Development NSC Notetaker General Secretary Gorbachev Foreign Minister Shevardnadze Aleksandr Yakovlev Politburo Member and Central Committee Secretary for Ideology Propaganda and Culture Anatoly Dobrynin Central Committee Secretary and Chief International Department Chairman Kamentsev Foreign Economic Commission Central Committee General Department Chief Boldin Chief Administrator of the Central Committee Kruchina Ambassador Dubinin a e- DATE TIME December 10 1987 12 40 PM 2 10 PM AND PLACE Family Dining While walking from the Oval Office meeting which ended at 12 15 to the Family Dining Room the President emphasized to Gorbachev-the'necessity of Vietnamese withdrawal from Cambodia The President noted that the occupation was possible due to the Soviets' extensive support and urged them to use their influence with Hanoi Lunch began at Gorbachev began by continuing the discussion of Afghanistan from the recently concluded Oval Office meeting He suggested that the Joint Statement adopt the language on Afghanistan prepared by Shultz then said he felt the working group had made progress in clarifying the Soviet view that withdrawal from Afghanistan and national reconciliation need not be linked This was necessary because national reconciliation would take a great deal of time Also in the end this was something the Afghan peOple must do among themselves Understanding this delinkage would help pave the way for the next Geneva round which should concentrate on the unresolved issue of Soviet - Gorbachev responded that Soviet withdrawal was definitely linked to an American obligation to cut off support for opposition forces on the date Soviet troop withdrawal started As of that date Soviet trOops would no longer engage in military operations and the ceasefire would go into effect Gorbachev emphasized the importance of the American and Soviet sides' using their influence with the parties to the Afghan conflict to promote national reconciliation He said that the Soviet side would tell Najib and the American side should do the same with the opposition forces that the creation of a coalition government was their affair They should find a balance of concessions s At the same time Gorbachev continued both the Americans and Soviets should say that they did not want the new Afghanistan to be led by either a pro-American or a pro-Soviet government Afghanistan should be neutral and nonaligned Of course Gorbachev added this was just his projection of how things would develop Gorbachev noted that the situation could develOp differently The Soviets would withdraw and the United States could continue financial and military support for the opposition forces This would lead to increased tension Gorbachev said that he did not see how the Soviets could withdraw forces in such circumstances There must be linkage of withdrawal and non interference Gorbachev suggested that after the meeting the two sides move the questions to a practical footing He said that this would be well-received by public opinion - Secretary Shultz said that as he and Foreign Minister- Shevardnadze discussed following the meeting of the working group yesterday the Soviet side welcomed American readiness to reaffirm support for the Geneva agreements This resolved the non-interference issue The missing piece in Geneva remained the timetableifor a troop withdrawal Gorbachev interjected that there must be an end to American support for the opposition forces at the same time If there was agreement on'this Gorbachev said let us declare it If the American side needed more time to think this over it should take it But the Soviet side wanted to engage in specific action Gorbachev added that action here would demonstrate American sincerity in addressing the Afghan problem It would also help the Soviets judge American intentions regarding other regional conflict situations 55' Secretary Shultz responded that both the United States and the Soviet Union accepted the Geneva agreements These agreements covered the issue of outside support According to the agreements after the signing of the accords a trOOp withdrawal would begin and 60 days after this American support would cease Gorbachev rejoined that he understood three points in the Geneva agreements were settled The fourth point remained to be settled Shultz noted that the linkage of national reconciliation and troop withdrawal had been a problem but now Soviet statements indicated that there was no such linkage and the American reaffirmation of support for the Geneva accords meant that we could devote our attention to the fourth point a timetable for troop withdrawal This could get the process Foreign Minister Shevardnadze remarked that there was no linkage in effect between troop withdrawal and national reconciliation He added that national reconciliation would be a long process s Gorbachev said that the Soviet side had already confirmed this He then asked if we could state that after the Summit we would begin work to consider practical concrete measures with the parties concerned HH- Secretary Shultz agreed 99r Gorbachev then proposed that the Joint Statement on regional issues mention that Afghanistan was discussed gape When Secretary Shultz noted that Afghanistan was already in the statement Gorbachev suggested that it mention other regions discussed such as Cambodia South Africa and the Middle East c Shultz noted that most of these were included Lefr Shevardnadze remarked that Central America had been discussed and was not in the Joint Statement So it should be added as should southern Africa Gorbachev said that this would show the responsibility of the United States and the Soviet Union the degree of responsibility incumbent on us in handling regional conflicts 4e7 x Secretary Shultz said that the Joint Statement noted the dialogue between the S6viet Union and the United States should have as its goal to help the parties to regional conflicts find peaceful solutions that advance their independence freedom and security Shultz added that our discussion on regional issues had been getting better and better This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu