Excerpt from Record of Conversation between Mikhail Gorbachev and James Baker February 9 1990 Gorbachev E A Shevardnadze told me that you had a good conversation about Afghanistan but that there was not much movement Baker On our part we have moved but not enough for you I think right now some movement on the part of the U S is not the most important thing Our influence on the Mujahedin is limited Although I have to admit we have certain influence over Pakistan We are in favor of political settlement in Afghanistan And there is just one individual one person who stands in the way of this settlement We cannot persuade the Mujahedin of anything until there is some mechanism guaranteeing that at the end of this transition process there will be a different government Therefore I am arguing that the process should be started Besides we are not demanding that Najibullah step down before the start of the process We only need to be confident that in the end result he and his closest associates not even the entire PDPA will leave the stage If we have that confidence then we have a good chance to convince the Afghan interim government the main Mujahedin leaders Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to support the process of creating first a transitional government and then a government of national reconciliation representing all the elements of the Afghan society and capable of governing the country I hope you know--I spoke many times about it--that we are not interested in an Afghan government that would be hostile to the USSR We have no interest in a victory of the fundamentalists But we will not be able to assist in the political settlement if we do not give assurances that in the end of the process this man installed by foreign troops would leave the stage His authority is not any more legitimate than the authority of the Afghan interim government which--and we admit that--is also not quite legitimate Gorbachev Let them boil in their own juices over there Maybe something will come out We are now more on the sidelines In any case we cannot give orders Baker We also cannot give orders to anybody We would be able to do something only if we can say that in the end Najibullah would leave Gorbachev He said somewhere recently that he does not demand guarantees that he would stay in power But we cannot impose preliminary conditions Shevardnadze After yesterday's negotiations I had an impression that we have the basis for discussions with the United States Baker We would be glad to discuss this issue in detail Maybe you could try to convince the government in Kabul to agree to hold Shura to start the first stage Shevardnadze Najubullah supports holding Shura but in Kabul Baker He already tried to convene Shura twice with no success Shevardnadze But the Mujahedin also tried it and failed Baker If Shura is allowed to take place but in conditions where security is guaranteed then maybe something will begin When you said let them boil I thought that we have the same feeling As we say in America we don't want any cheese we just want out of the trap Gorbachev Same with us We want a settlement that would be acceptable for everybody in the region including for Pakistan India Iran and so on Baker Then let the process begin Who knows maybe something will come out Maybe Najibullah Shevardnadze Najibullah proposes free elections Gorbachev Don't you always speak in support of free elections Baker But he wants these elections held under his auspices and that is unacceptable Shevardnadze No he wants these elections to be held under the UN auspices Baker We will not be able to persuade the Mujahedin This is a difficult problem Gorbachev You know today when our relations and the situation overall reached a new stage we are less concerned about this problem I am concerned about the reputational aspect Because starting from Afghanistan we started to implement a new approach to regional conflicts started to search for ways to political solutions Therefore it would be very good if we could complete this process to everyone's satisfaction Translated by Svetlana Savranskaya for the National Security Archive This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu