MORL MULLU 190209 0L van yeah 13 September 1964 MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD SUBJECT Discussion with Rusk in his office Saturday September 12th - 10 00 to 11 30 a m 1 I told Rusk of my increasing concern over the evidences of dynamic military effort on the part of the Soviets the appearance Li- 3 of more single silos the contimation of the testing of new and larger 13 51 missiles evidences that they are engaged in an extensive radar 'l development which may mean ABM deployment or an anti-satellite effort -- we could not tell continuing improvement of their nuclear submarine program etc I said that I was so concerned about all of this that I felt immediately upon the completion of 11-8 and 11-3 that the President Rusk McNamara Bundy and I must sit down and review these estimates and concern ourselves with the consequences I said that it was apparent to me that the Soviets were saying one thing in Geneva and publicly and doing quite another thing privately from the standpoint of the arms race Rusk agreed and said the meeting was necessary He hoped that the issue might not get into public print prior to the election 2 Reviewed the reasons for flying a lRusk is opposed to this and will 0 position is that the political consequences of the loss if of a plane outweigh the advantages of the intelligence gained I said it was not possible for me to do anything but advance the arguments favorable to the flight from an intelligence point of view and let the President after hearing me and receiving the advice of others make Wabbit arises in connection with the 3 Rusk then raised the question of the total effort of collecting_ intelligence and its relation to policy IPPIIWEII RELEASE DATE 2II2 i MORI SOLD mus a ways ea er Imade no comment on thi 4 Rusk questioned me concerning the ChiCom nuclear weapon program and ompson a unc oms would get off a test at any time This is a departure from Gromyko's position with Rusk and Khrushchev's position with Harriman a few months or a year ago 1 We validity of the Was the possibility Note I do not wish to put this forward in any formal way however it is in my opinion a possibility worth noting 5 We then reviewed in considerable detail the proposed trip and I listed the individuais whgmiintended to talk with 6 Rusk queried me concerning the reports from Saigon of military presence and military personnel wandering around in armored cars jeeps etc At this point Bill Bundy came in I said that we had had a flood of coup rumors that they came from factors that were 2 MORI DOCID 790209 dissatified with Khanh's recent concessions that they were representative of the deepening schisms between factions in Vietnam but I didn't think there was enough of an organization to present a formidable opposition to Khanh or get away with a coup 7 Rusk asked what I thought was going on in the Communist world He noted the growing indications of independence on the part of satellite leaders deepening rift between Russia and Communist China and he wondered just what Khrushchev had in mind in trying to organize an international conference I said that we too had observed the indicators I was particularly interested in Tito's trip to Hungary and I didn't think Tito was trying to mend Khrushchev's fences that on the contrary he was trying to increase his independent strength I also said that we agreed that the Sine-Soviet rift was deepening we had noted the deployment of the Soviet division to the Chinese border and also the differing positions of local Communist parties such as North Korean castigation of the Russians and their apparent cooperation with the ChiComs 8 Rusk questioned the publication of the Togliatti letter in Moscow which I could not explain I agreed that our demonologists would take a fresh look at the situation and report from time to time on our analysis as the situation evolved and unfolded 9 Rusk asked if he should order Taylor to go immediately from Honolulu to Saigon stating it Would look bad if the American Ambassador was in Honolulu during a political disruption in Saigon Both Bill Bundy and I felt that while the situation was unstable there was no urgent reason for issuing such an order for Ambassador Taylor J'AM tape mcm This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu