SECRET 8897 THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON DECLASSIFIED PER E 0 13526 ao 5'0-732 -n-x MEMORANDUM OE CONVERSATION k GH 3 13 SUBJECT MeetingwithRussian President Yeltsin PARTICIPANTS U S President Clinton Secretary Albright National Security AdvisorBerger Deputy National Security AdvisorSteinberg Ambassador Sestanovich CarlosPascual Russia Russian President Yeltsin ForeignMinister Ivanov KremlinForeignPolicy AdvisorPrihodko Defense Minister Sergeyev Interpreter PeterAfansenko Notetaker CarlosPascual DATE TIME AND PLACE November 19 1999 10 45 a m ­11 40a m Istanbul Turkey President Yeltsin We are in neutral territory here I welcome U you The President Neither of us has a stakehere It's good to U see you President Yeltsin Well Bill what about those camps here in Turkey thatare preparing troopsto go intoChechnya Aren't you in­charge of those I have the details Minister Ivanov giveme the map I want to show you where the mercenaries are being trained and then beingsent intoChechnya They are armed to the teeth Note Yeltsin pulls out map of Turkeyand circulates it Bill thisis your fault I toldDemirel yesterday thatI will send the head of the SRV tomorrowand we will show him where the camps are located These are not state­ sanctioned camps They are sponsoredby NGOs and religious EeRET­ Classified by RobertA Bradtke Reason 1 5 d Declassify On 12 11 09 j SECRET — organizations But let me tell you if this were inRussia and therewere but one camp Iwould throwthem all outand put the banditsin the electric chair isl The President Perhaps Demirelcouldhelp you President Yeltsin Well he ought to Tomorrow after I get back I will send the head of the ForeignIntelligence Service here Bill did you hurtyour leg The President Yes but it is not bad President Yeltsin When one leg of the President hurts thatis a bad thing Xf The President It lets me know I am alive President Yeltsin I know we are not upsetat each other We were justthrowing some jabs I'mstill waiting foryou to visit Bill I've saidto you come to visit inMay then June then Julyand then August Now it's past Octoberand you're still not there The President You'reright Boris I owe you a visit President Yeltsin Last time I went to the U S Bill The President Well I better set it up I'll lookat the calendarand finda time that's good foryou and me President Yeltsin Callme and tell me the month and date Unless I have anothervisit I will do the maximum amount I can to do everything around your schedule The main thingsI have are to go to China and India The President Boris we still have lotsto do together President Yeltsin You heard my statementon nucleararms and on banningnucleartests I just signeda law on ratification of a new agreementon the ComprehensiveTest Ban Treaty Isn't thatright Minister Ivanov Minister Ivanov You signedthe documents thatsent the ComprehensiveTest Ban Treatyto the Duma forreview SECP ET 3B€RE¥ President Yeltsin Well in any case I still approvedit The President Maybe I can get the Congress to agree still They kept the Treatyeven after they rejected it So perhaps thereis still a chance President Yeltsin Or perhaps it's justthe bureaucrats working and theyhaven't had a chance to send it back to you yet I'm upset thatyou signedthe law to change the ABM Treaty The President I signedno such law People in Congress don't like the ABM Treaty IfCongress had its way theywould underminethe treaty I'mtrying to upholdit But we need a national missile defenseto protect against rogue states We can't have a national missile defensethatworks without changingthe ABM Treaty But I want to do thiscooperatively I want to persuadeyou thatthisis good forboth of us The primary purposeis to protect againstterrorists and rogue states It would be ineffective against Russia The system we'relooking at would operateagainst just20 missiles And BorisI want to figure out how to share the benefits For all I know in twentyyears terrorists couldhave access to nuclear weapons I know your peopledon'tagree withme but I'mnot trying to overthrow the ABM Treaty We're still trying to discover what'stechnically possible withnational missile defense but thereare peopleinAmerica who want to throwover the ABM Treaty I have made no decisions yet President Yeltsin Bill Bill I got your note It went into all these thingsin incredible detail I read it and I was satisfied I've not yet ceased to believe in you I ask you one thing Just giveEurope to Russia The U S is not in Europe Europe shouldbe the businessof Europeans Russia ishalfEuropean and half Asian The President So you want Asia too President Yeltsin Sure sure Bill Eventually we will have to agree on all of this The President I don'tthink the Europeans would like this very much President Yeltsin Not all But I am a European I live in Moscow Moscow is in Europe and I like it You can take all the otherstatesand providesecurity to them I will take CECRE ­¥­ E€fiET Europe and providethem security Well not I Russia will We will end thisconflict in Chechnya I didn't say all the thingsI was thinking inhis speech I listened to you carefully I took a break just beforehand Then I listened to you from beginning to end I can even repeatwhat you said Bill I'mserious Give Europe to Europe itself Europe never felt as closeto Russia as it does now We have no difference of opinion withEurope exceptmaybe on Afganistan and Pakistan — which by the way is training Chechens These are bandits headhunters and killers They'rerapingAmericanwomen They'recutting offears and otherpartsof their hostages We're fighting these typesof terrorists Let's not accuse Russia thatwe are too rough withthese kindsof people There are onlytwo options kill them or put them on trial There's no third option but we can put them on trial and sentencethem to 20­25 years How many Americans French British and Germans have I freed thatwere therein Chechnya under the OSCE The Chechen killers don'tlike the languageof the OSCE Here'smy Minister of Defense Stand up We have not lostone soldier down there Tellthem Minister Sergeyev Minister Sergeyev We didnot loseone soldier in Gudermes President Yeltsin You see Gudermes was cleansedwithout one military or civilian killed We killed 200 bandits The Minister of Defense is fulfilling the plan as I have saidit shouldbe He's doing thisthoughtfully The soldiers only ask don'tstop the campaign I promisedthese guys — I told every soldier marshaland general­ ­Iwill bringthe campaign to fruition We have these Chechens under lockand key We have the key They can't get in they can't get out Except maybe throughGeorgia that's Shevardnadze's bigmistake And throughAzerbaijan that's Aliyev's mistake They'reshuttling in under the name of Islam We're forfreedomof religion but not forfundamentalist Islam These extremists are againstyou and against me ISrf We have the power in Russia to protect all of Europe including those withmissiles We'll make all the appropriate treaties withChina We're not going to provide nuclear weapons to •CCCRBT ’ India If we give them submarines it will be onlyconventional diesel submarii s not nuclear They would be from the 935 generation You'regoing in thatdirection too I'mthinking about your proposal— well what your armed forcesare doing — getting ridof fissile materials particularly plutonium We should just get ridof it As soon as it's there people start thinking of how to make bombs Look Russiahas the power and intellect to know what to do with Europe IfIvanovstayshere he will initial the CFE Treaty and I'll signit under him But under the OSCE Charter there isone thingI cannotagree ­­which is that based on humanitarian causes one statecan interfere in the affairs of anotherstate National Security AdvisorBerger Mr President there's nothingin the Charteron one state's interference in the affairs of another Secretary Albright That'sright What the Chartersays is thataffairs within a statewill affect the otherstatesaround it President Yeltsin Russia agrees to take out its property and equipmentfrom Georgiain accordancewiththe new CFE Treaty I have a statementon this looking towardIvanov Give it to me I signedit today Actually it was latelast night I like to work late 8 The President Me too President Yeltsin I know you like to work late Bill When you call me I calculate the time and I tell myselfit's 4 a m and he'scalling me Itletsyou cleanseyour brainand you feelgreat I am not criticizing you Bill The President shouldbe encouragedto work hard The President So we will get an agreementon CFE President Yeltsin Yes iSjT The President That'svery important We've worked on thisfor seven years REGRET President Yeltsin Look Ivanovhas lostthe statementin his own bag He can't findthe paper in his own bag On the Charter we have to lookat it from the beginning The Charter's ready However when states beginto tiein the Charterwiththe final declaration thathas wordingunacceptable to us that's when we'll say no And responsibility forthis will fall fully on the West Lookingat Ivanov Give me thisthing Itis written on paper Bill I am ready to signit Itis a declaration about what we'retalking about Secretary Albright Some stateswant to recordin the declaration your willingness to have an OSCE mission President Yeltsin No not at all We will finish thiswith our own forces Chechnya is the businessof the internal affairs of Russia We have to decidewhat to do After we cleansedGudermes the muslim mufticame and asked forhelp He saidI hate Basayev and he shouldbe banned These are the kindsof leaderswe will put forward I have thoughtthis throughcarefully The President On the Chechen problem I have been less critical than others Even today I asked the othershow they would deal withthisif it were their country This is a political issue It may be the best thingforyou within Russia to tell the Europeans to go to hell But the best thingfor your relations withEurope forthe long term is to figure out the policy thatyou want to have withEurope and to keep thatin mind as you deal withChechnya President Yeltsin Gets up rapidly Bill the meetingis up We said20 minutesand it has now been more than 35 minutes The President That'sfine We can say the meetingis over W President Yeltsin This meetinghas gone on too long You shouldcome to visit Bill The President Who will win the election President Yeltsin Putin of course He will be the successor to BorisYeltsin He's a democrat and he knows the West ■pp pp­prji CECRE ­­ The President He's very smart President Yeltsin He's tough He has an internal ramrod He's tough internally and I will do everything possible forhim to win­­legally of course And he will win You'll do businesstogether He will continue the Yeltsin line on democracy and economics and widen Russia's contacts He has the energy and the brainsto succeed Thank you Bill The President Thank you Boris It was good to see you End of Conversation U This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu Read related article Putin Clinton and Presidential Transitions 2020-11-02