w vomwumo-M as a if atiumxl Amish THI MEETING Friday 3 26 76 Autiahuin ga k r Rcprn lurl'tl 11 tht• Nntional Archive Secre D p E T M AF ARA EA EUR NEA INR S P EB S PRS PM IO H L S S s ss r Chairman Mr Ingersoll Mr s co Mr Robinson Ivlr Maw Mr Eagleburger Mr Mulcahy Acting Mr Rogers Mr Habib Mr Armitage Mr Atherton Mr Saunders Mr Lord Mr Katz Acting Mr Funseth Mr Vest Mr Lewis Ambassador McCloskey Mr Leigh Mr Springsteen Mr Barbian G D S DECLASSIFIED of State G D S Archiv S H cprodun•tl at till' 01ationa1 2 P R 0 C E D I N G S 's Staff Meeting was at 8 12a m Secre as convened ssinger presiding of State irman MR INGERSOLL Good morning Henry Discussion off the record MR INGERSOLL implications We'll have a The boycott could have serious paper to you on that and we can't find out anything about it SECRETARY KISSINGER What is this The Justice Department MR INGERSOLL Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER bi is investigating the oil companies for their conduct during the boycott the one time they behaved in a patriotic fashion MR INGERSOLL Well in may not be limited in that period but it starts there SECRETARY KISSINGER One time they kept everybody going by putting oil into one big pool and that's antitrust MR LEIGH much about it Mr Secretary help on it before the grand jury DECLASSIFIED Well they won't tell us very That's why we is convened need your Now this I eprodurt•d lf tht' ational Archiv •s 3 is not just a c l inves Once that's done we wouldn't be able to say anything MR INGERSOLL That's why we think we move on it and they say it's very confiden just told us about it have to al They They won't tell us anything about tne details if that's 'consultation laughter I will have it to you today One other point I'd like to make is this may be my last Staff Meeting Henry and I'll be thinking of all of you on the slopes of Aspen maybe next week I aughter 1''lR IVIAW The slippery slope MR INGERSOLL Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER cocktail party for you people are going to Bob we're going to have a where bei but I I suppose most of these need not tell you how much you will be missed MR INGERSOLL Thank you SECRETARY KISSINGER I'll miss all of you I want to tell you that with dignity and calm you performed this job and even diplomats will not say this of me when I leave Laughter Keep your laughing within limits MR EAGLEBURGER He's not a DECLASSIFIED diplomat pointing Heprmlured al tilt∙ 1 alional rchin s 4 to Mr Leigh MR SISCO I haven't anything MR ROBINSON Association I just came back from New York I want to report that they announced your forthcoming speech before that group on the Law of the Sea and everyone became very excited women fainted in the front row very shattering just before I Two laughter and it was My inferiority complex was with me But I was to speak just want you to know that they're very excited about your coming up SECRETARY KISSINGER MR INGERSOLL MR ROBINSON Why only two Laughter That's all there were Laughter They're very pleased and I just wanted to tell you how excited they were about your forthcoming speech SECRETARY KISSINGER Are we getting a draft If that boy drafts as well as he talks it's going to be the greatest speech since the Gettysburg Address MR EAGLEBURGER It will be longer SECRETARY KISSINGER Laughter We can put in some of the details depending on the discussions with Treasury but I DECLASSIFIED had the sense yesterday that we were going to get 'produrl'd HI 1hl' Nation 1l Archives 5 most of our proposals MR LORD I think we can get certa ly enough with that speech SECRE'I'ARY KISSINGER 0 K MR MULCAHY Now this day talks in Lusaka that we the suspense of the attached quite a importance to broke up without a bit of statement SECRETARY KISSINGER The talks where MR MULCAHY This was the Four Power talks Presidents Machel Khama Nyerere and Kaunda meeting in Lusaka on where they could go from here with the I odesian situation They had both Rhodesian nationalist factions there and Nkomo according to the press between Nkomo apparently No reconciliation took place ' and Nyerere which was one of the purposes of the thing Also which is not a it broke up without any sort of communique good sign and SECRETARY KISSINGER VJhy MR MULCAHY Well SECRETARY KISSINGER MR MULCAHY 'Jell It means it means that Nkomo and Kaunda who are generally reliable as far as the DEC LASS I Authoritvt 11 ' 'I 6 ne t s r SI iCRETARY t the KISSINGER 1 be 't MIL st ne But it also means uade there that's right If you're an ia MULCAHY Yes take that view If you're SECRETARY KISSINGER - I mean what else can it mean MR MULCAHY Yes It means a realist they could sir SECRETARY KISSINGER to concerned But what's more likely MR MULCAHY Well SECRE'rARY KISSINGER I think if Where is the Assistant Secretary incidentally MR MULCAHY He's on his way back from Paris He went to the reinforced NAC in Brussels and he'll be back this afternoon SECRETARY KISSINGER Go ahead MR MULCAHY But what probably will happen is that this now will increase the pressure on Smith that SECRETARY KISSINGER £CLASSIFIED Only in your mind Since H t•produn∙tl at thl' National Archin• 7 he broke off the talks why should it increase the sure on him MR MULCAHY Well because they all now agree that the guerrilla warfare will continue and be stepped up SECRETARY KISSINGER that a I thought they all said ady MR MULCAHY They have but there's relatively little of it But I rainy season we'll see a think now with the great deal of infiltration across the border One of the proposals under consideration was to put a lway system through Botswana to South Africa The principal rail line will also cause UN It's a sanctions knotty problem because the rail line is the property of the Rhodesian Government We think that this was one of the issues under consideration SECRETARY KISSINGER Can I get a paper by middle of next week of how we're going to get from here to there I mean what AF now and what we visualizes is going to happen can do now MR MULCAHY Yes other than handwringing sir SECRETARY KISSINGER And exactly what steps the f •pnHimTd II thl' iH1iunal Archive 8 should be taken hopefully that are within the realm of realism by Wednes HR MULCAHY Yes sir SECRETARY KISSINGER We've opened a far as I can see Post a note we new chapter of diplomacy as We now have on the front page of the haven't even sent yet MR HABIB old Phil That story was basically two days It came SECRETARY KISSINGER Has that note been sent MR HABIB Yesterday SECRETARY KISSINGER Larry that I told you disapproved it MR HABIB night I I thought I was told telling me It went to you I got a It went out last phone call at 5 306 00 o'clock it's gone because I've got the comeback copy this morning SECRETARY KISSINGER Well at 5 306 00 I hell wasn't approving anything MR HABIB We did it 1n accordance with your changes MR BARBIAN Eo1 ---r r Ci xs-sl - i iithoritvt lt IQ I r - That's right Two cables sure as Hcprmlun•d al Ott' Naliowrl ArchiH s 9 MR HABIB One didn't go SECRETARY KISSINGER two cables but I There may didn't see them have been May I see them now Mr Barbian hands Secretary a document to peruse MR HABIB The last paragraph SECRETARY KISSINGER O K Go ahead MR HABIB 'rhe other thing is that you have approval of the first stage of the Thai withdrawal actions SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but I want to have a significant cut also in the military advisers MR HABIB down around 200 now Yes The ceiling lS 270 We're We're supposed to go below that before the end of the SECRETARY KISSINGER withdrawal The Thais don't know what our ceiling is Therefore if we just keep it MR HABIB ceiling of 270 I want the Thais to see a is a No They set the ceiling ceiling which SECRETARY KISSINGER Have we pulled out 70 The l •produn∙d al tlw 'ational Archlvts 10 or have we simply not replaced 70 MH HABIB Well the 70 SECRE'rARY KISSINGER MR HABIB withdrawn No and there was are not there •rhey have never been there They have been temporarily some thought of pulling it down lower SECRETARY KISSINGER I would like the Thais to see that after their decision there is some reduction s in the part they want MR HABIB to have stay I understand SECRETARY KISSINGER and we can keep the ceiling and put in more people later on if they ask for it MR HABIB Well what we want to do is keep the ceiling so that later on if we be intelligence people not MAG need to it would people and vary it with the MAG SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HABIB Also we That's fine That's what we had in mind have to now take very tough decisions on such things as pulling out the ammunition we stored in place That's going to really show the Thais what this is costing because we've got about 60 million have Reprmlun'tl 11 he ' 1tional Archin SECRET 11 dollars worth of ammuni which on we cannot leave there And we them or take it out under present law can either sell it to They're not going to buy it they're going to want us to leave it there and give it That's going to them which would not be possible to hurt So there's going to be a which I series of actions hope very frankly I'd rather not take on some of them until the election is out of the way until the election is out of the way which is eight more days nine more days If we way we may have a new government we government get the election out of the may not have a We'll see what happens so we'll try to keep you informed SECRETARY KISSINGER Is the Vice I forgot President stopping there or not MR HABIB No sir because of the election The other thing is that the Koreans have now indicted 18 people from the last official statement and they've indicted them under a less severe act than they might have put them under Now whether that's the k of reaction taken in response to the kind of protest I SECRET DECLASSIFIED don't know new Ht'JHtHlurl'd al tltt' ' atiunal Archive 12 At the same the've reindicted a rather well known international official who under a law would permit them to sentence him to death is a This guy who's already sentenced to life imprisonment under a previous commitment SECRETARY KISSINGER Where lS he Is he in prison MR HABIB He's in prison under a life sentence and they've just reindicted him under another law which permits them to sentence him to death SECRETARY KISSINGER chances do they Laughter MR HABIB They don't take any chances guy is very sick besides for very long He won't make Laughter on the Hill They don't take any They tell me letters themselves The it But the rumble is up they have actuallywritten They have written letters to Parker to see what he can do about the situation I have to appear before the Humphrey Subcommittee on Korea at 4 00 and I'm sure they're going to give me a very bad time position But I think we can hold to the Heprodun∙d at the ational Archive 13 MR be Monday I got a MA v the House Inte pretty bad time on it onal Relations Committee on and you're going to get it today I'm glad you let them SECRETARY KISSINGER schedule me so nicely before these Committees Laughter Go ahead MR ARMITAGE doctor this morning morning Mr Art Hartman had to go to the He'll be here the middle of the Secretary We've got a couple of helpful developments on protection of Sovi j personnel in Moscow was a bomb threat yesterday evacuated but no bomb was Part of the Embassy was found SECRETARY KISSINGER in the papers yesterday or was MR ARMI'rAGE But that was already that another one No SECRETARY KISSINGER That was the same There are no statements to be made on the Soviet Union that I clear There do not personally We cannot harass the Soviets every single bloody day with some other tough talk out of this building and we mishandled the three Missions business no need for us to shoot at them the day it happened We could have said yesterday We DECLASSIFIED Authoritv f 1 I are studying it that There's Hcprodun•d at the ntional Archivl'S 14 we are asking for a full report MR FUNSETH going out to Moscow That guidance that I is press guidance two days before SECRETARY KISSINGER ther used in That's how I didn't approve it the other disaster happened That went out as press guidance immediately MR ARMITAGE We now have one in New Mr Secretary mantled the bomb York The New York Police Department dis stored out of Amtorg yesterday thereby SECRETARY KISSINGER Are we going to protest to the Soviets and say they did it MR ARMITAGE No sir The search had been made earlier after the telephone warning found nothing SECRETARY KISSINGER must be cleared now another one that I The press guidance to Moscow There's not to be here don't see MR FUNSETH All right sir MR ARMITAGE The bomb was actually found by Soviet personnel disarmed by the police just possible that if the police would have been a more vigilant they could have been caught by this time because they didn't leave anybody around after the search And it's little MR LEWIS There•s another more JDL what was t from ano z and FBI were t for the t 't to the New York of s the SECRETARY KISSINGER can we a MR FUNSETH Yes re we are so statement Heprudun d nl th ntional Archin s 16 SECRETARY KISSINGER and calling on the New York Police and others to assist MR SISCO I'll see what we MR INGERSOLL can do with that I called the Mayor and the Mayor said the Commissioner was going to call me back indictments They were going to get some Federal I don't think they have done anything yet have they MR ARMITAGE and the bomb No Shooting into the Riverdale around Aeroflot But they say they haven't been able to turn up any leads yet MR INGERSOLL that take place the New But some of these harassments York Police arrest them and let them go MR L E WI S they insist For example on carrying signs they have no legal right to arrest people for carrying nasty signs And the FBI claims it's doing everything it can and we've been at them at high levels But this kidnapping is really scary really have a capacity for doing it MR ARMITAGE and we We've gotten all our advisers haven't been able to find anything SECRETARY KISSINGER You can't prosecute somebody They Reprudun_∙d 0111hc Nationnl Archin' 17 who publicly says somebody else is going to kidnap somebody MR ARMITAGE Apparently not if they attribute it to somebody else and they make a statement that makes They usually couch it in it clear they will do it that way SECRETARY KISSINGER such a And giving publicity to threat does not MR LEIGH I doubt that that could possibly be considered part of the conspiracy to kidnap or a threat to kidnap SECRETARY KISSINGER Well the Soviets are bound to do something and it's just indecent of us to wax so indignant when they for weeks have been harassed in the most unforgivable way and then for us be so selfrighteously indignant yesterday That's really distressing There's a On this issue they're right limit to the domestic politics we can play You know damn well that our people in Moscow that's one thing they don't do we going to do condemning these harass them gratuitously Can we make a But what are statement today to 18 MR FUNSETH Yes sir MR EAGLEBURGER I better see if we can get some more people back We've had 80 just haven't got any more SY agents that's the real problem SECRETARY KISSINGER Are any of them near the Missions MR EAGLEBURGER Yes We've had them near the Soviets SECRE'I'ARY KISSINGER give the Soviets a that Well could somebody surrunary or has somebody done of what we're doing for them MR ARMITAGE Oh yes repeatedly sir yes sir And we've also issued very strong deploring statements before when these things have happened in New York MR FUNSETH Our guidance said that yesterday SECRETARY KISSINGER run their own to prove how have a I do not want Bureaus to antidetente campaign and everyone trying tough they are And one day we're going to major crisis and everyone will run for the fox holes MR LEWIS the JDL DECLASSIFIED Authority'f J 'J There were some demonstrations by against Ambassador Malik when he was in the We 19 The police fortunately provided very good hospital protection and there was no se idents s s ous dif culty or tty well And apparently Malik was th the kind ed at least on that occasion of response he got SECRETARY KISSINGER O K Are you finished Addresses Mr Armitage MR ARMITAGE Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ROGERS Bill The chief negotiator in Panama It looks as though for personal reasons has resigned he's going to be succeeded Guerra who's a in all probability by former Foreign Minister SECRETARY KISSINGER such a s I don't think is great loss is he MR ROGERS No sir It wouldn't seem that way even in Panama In Argentina although the junta has had some pretty good success we're trying to make whatever estimates we can about what's going to happen We've asked both the Mission and Washington to do their own visualizations to compare them preliminary estimate has got to be that it's going to go But I think the 20 s junta downhill tes lS ng the basic proposition 're going to that Argentina is not governable so I think succeed where everybody else has failed that's a distinctly oddson choice I think we're going to look for a considerable effort to involve the United States particularly I think we're going to see a in the financial field good deal SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but that's in our interest MR ROGERS If there's a chance of it succeeding and if they're not asking us to put too much up on the table What we're going to try to do when and if they come up with such a plan is what we We had worked prepared to do about six months ago out as intermediaries were a sensible program for inter national assistance using the private banks and monetary institutions Whether we know but I can pull that off again I don't think we're going to hear from them very early on in terms of financial programs I think also we've got to expect a of repression probably a fair amount good deal of blood in Argentina 21 before too long I think they're going to have to come hard not only on the terrorists down but on the dissidents of trade unions and their parties SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ROGERS But The point I'm making is that although they have good press today the basic line of all the interference was they had to do it because she couldn't run the country that we So I think the point is ought not at this moment to rush out and embrace this new regime that threesix months later will be considerably less popular with the press SECRETARY KISSINGER But we shouldn't do the opposite either MR ROGERS Oh no MR McCLOSKEY MR ROGERS th morning a obviously not What do we say about recognition Well we're going to recognize formal note in response to their request for recognition as have virtually all the other countries of Latin America ke p But beyond that Hill will his mouth shut SECRETARY KISSINGER mean concretely Yes but what does that Whatever chance they have they will need 22 a li encouragement from us What is he telling them MR ROGERS What been talking with them yet to talk with them Oh nothing He has not He has not been invited He's ready to go in and talk with them when and if they request a meeting But the Generals who are now presently occupying the Ministerial posts are there very temporarily probably for the week until the junta can make its final decisions as to whom they're going to appoint on who They will make decisions they will appoint within a week We think we know who's the Foreign Minister which is the key appointment SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ROGERS Probably a who we have worked with in the past then I think we're in a Who fellow named t A 1u And if he is appointed position to work with him SECRETARY KISSINGER But can I see some instructions on what you're going to tell Hill if somebody should come in MR ROGERS Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER encourage them ---- b-Eci -S · ∙∙∙∙∙ s' ∙ll∙∙ ∙∙E D ∙ _1 l jJ_CJJ_Cf_f 0 • B f JL ak _3 _t£ fz Authority because I I don't want to give the sense that do want to 2 • LEWISi two Russians some so 't York Most of Most the cans So it's a Mr Do want us to s as to a be use or not SECRETARY KISSINGER we can I 't see a MR LEWIS are to ther 24 be out tomorrow everywhere If a That is now publicly known debate takes place it will focus on the South African presence in Namibia rather than Angola On the other hand the Cubans are the only foreign troops now in Angola so the Chinese are going to hit the Russians very hard in the debate next week we can also do the same and so there are some arguments either way SECRETARY KISSINGER Well I would generally think we're better off with no debate We've made our point on Angola several times MR LEWIS Yes sir SECRETARY KISSINGER spill blood over it But I If there is we wouldn't should hit foreign intervention in Angola and ask for the withdrawal of Cuban troops MR LEWIS 'rhat' s All right all SECRETARY KISSINGER HR SAUNDERS Hal Since Lebanon was mentioned want to men∙tion another issue on which you may approached in the next few weeks from the academic community DECLASSIFIED Authority J and this is the Russian Research Center at I be 25 Harvard As you know they've been coming on increasingly difficult times financially to the point where Harvard looks like it's meeting about onefifth of its planned budget next year SECRETARY KISSINGER Are they financed mostly by the Government MR SAUNDERS They were to receive Defense money ivhen that receded as you remember last year we put some project money in rather than programtype money And the approach that will be made to us this year is for the State Department to seek from Congress the authority to provide basic grant money to perhaps as many as 30 of these centers around the country some of which a re in danger of closing their doors SECRETARY KISSINGER need It's a And how much would we lot of money MR SAUNDERS Four and a SECRETARY KISSINGER half million dollars Million MR SAUNDERS Million yes of course SECRETARY KISSINGER For 30 MR SAUNDERS You would figure to two hundred thousand that would be maximum -·-l i c t - -Assli - Eo-1 Authority t ' '' institutions just hypothetically Nobody 26 has costed this out yet and I'm giving you an outside figure It could be less SECRETARY KISSINGER But what do they do with $200 000 MR SAUNDERS At the Harvard Center the budget is $150 000 for next year so we're really talking per center about relatively small amounts of money They have a research contract with the center for sixty thousand this year SECRETARY KISSINGER Studying what MR SAUNDERS Dynamics of Soviet SECRETARY KISSINGER I'm not sure And who's doing it It's not many governments who finance studies that demonstrate their incompetence Laughter What do you think you're going to get out of a Harvard study on the Soviet Union MR SAUNDERS It needs some more basic dynamics of decisionmaking processes SECRETARY KISSINGER In the Soviet Union MR SAUNDERS Right SECRETARY KISSINGER sympathetic though I On this one I'm basically have no illusions about what's going 27 to come out of it MR SAUNDERS same boat No I think we're all in the The question is really whether the Government should support this kind of institution in the country one And there are two ways of going about it the National Defense Con®unications Act where HEW concentrates mainly on broad citizen education and tends not to concentrate on the specialized centers And the concentrate ' alternative would be for the Department to l on the specialized centers We'll send you a memo on this outlining the pros and cons There are a lot of other people to be worked into the process but we've heard that some going to approach you in some way people are or another SECRETARY KISSINGER or Larry They have to be desperate Laughter MR EAGLEBURGER We'll never get it from Congress I hope you understand that MR SAUNDERS Well I SECRETARY KISSINGER under Hays too suppose that's true but Why won't we get it Is that 28 Hays would be all right MR EAGLEBURGER Yes but I think Slack would be very opposed MR SAUNDERS The position we're in now as you recall we concentrated in four main areas of research after an approach to you about a half ago as I year and a understand it And we're now funding research projects partly for the sake of the research but partly for the sake of the institutional support involved SECRETARY KISSINGER Joe referring to Mr Sisco I hope you realize that needs a slug of this money right away MR SISCO Well I realize it MR HABIB You can start an institute Joe Laughter Laughter MR SAUNDERS It's just something that has to be explored within the Government A decision has to be made one way or another I just wanted to bring this forward to you I just wanted you to be alerted SECRETARY KISSINGER O K Roy MR ATHERTON Well DECLASSIFIED Authorityffi I guess the best thing to 29 Laughter be said about Lebanon is it's highly diffused SECRETARY KISSINGER having a Cut through the fog to reality MR ATHER'rON as far as we signi on studying this professional organiz Laughter advantage of That's Well the military situation can tell this morning cant move there hasn't been any on the ground but there has been heavy shelling and casualties are high On the political side several th First of all possibly the most significant development has told us he's going to Damascus tomorrow and has indicated he's prepared to talk about a constitutional transition providing it happens quickly On the other hand Franjiyah has announced that he will never ever resign until expiration of s term SECRETARY KISSINGER Which is when MR ATHERTON September The Syrian formula is that it has an amendment in the consutution which would provide for make it possible for the President to resign six months before the termination of his term and then agree on a and then he would resign all within a --- _ i c ss - Authontyti 1 Eo successor very brief period 30 of time What he's saying publicly makes it look as though he has backed away from this idea The Christians are obviously feeling more desperate We've had approaches now from them has asked for U S clarification suggesting possibly going to the Security Council Charles Malik has approached us although I largely discount his importance or effectiveness now in the situation The Syrians right wing SECRETARY KISSINGER isn't he MR ATHERTON Sorry SECRETARY KISSINGER MR SISCO tlft is right wing Former MR ATHERTON Former SECRETARY KISSINGER I know MR ATHERTON The Syrtians are somewhat mixed officers who In Lebanon itself the Syrian army have been part of the mediating team returned to Damascus And there's some indication that some of the Syriancontrolled PLA --··-r i cl· - s s i- -ii o·--1 Authority ' J j ' 'T t 1 I A tn r l The signals and disengaging 31 from the sort of peacekeeping mission that they've had On the other hand they do seem to be continuing on the diplomatic track calling people from Damascus Khaddam who got your message SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ATHERTON no pressing detail I understand has indicated there's You'll see the report from the Saudis The Saudis responded promptly to your message that you sent them SECRETARY KISSINGER I haven't seen it but I will before the end of the day All right let's discuss that in a separate meeting MR ATHERTON All right SECRETARY KISSINGER when I can assemble all the things MR ATHERTON Well I think that's sort of a status report on the things Could I say one more SECRETARY KISSINGER thing on the C130s Yes MR ATHERTON because it may SECRETARY KISSINGER on that DECLASSIFIED Authority f' Jffi come up Have I heard from the Egyptians 1 eprntnu cu oH un ∙• ' ·' ∙∙∙' 32 MR ATHERTON No MR SISCO No MR A'rHERTON but there's a lot in the press today that will lead to questioning when you appear before the Humphrey Subcommittee The thrust of the press stories is that we are leaning towards selling the civilian version of the C130 and th is a confusion The problem is this Defense would like very much to sell the export model which comes off of the production line under which the in December rst would be available I think what position we is that we have to take ought to keep open the option and that we've not made a decision until we can discuss with the Egyptians what they want SECRETARY KISSINGER We have promised to the Egyptians the Air Force model MR ATHERTON Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER option to be discussed Now there is no other There will be no other option to be discussed Roy MR ATHER'rON DECLASSIFIED Authorityffi No we've been making that 1 l l'llHIULI U u I IlL • ' ' ' ''' ' · ' 33 point with Defense that we cannot foreclose what we have already promised the Egyptians SECRETARY KISSINGER it They cannot foreclose They have no other choice ed very hard MR ATHER'I'ON We have to make MR HABIB There is a What's the model letter A technical thing B C D F Do you know what model There are some problems SECRETARY KISSINGER promises made There were specific I do not accept the proposition that we settle national policy by negotiation among Assistant Secretaries The President made a promise to Sadat which will be kept unless the Congress stops it There is no possibility of delivering it in December when we promised to deliver it in April MR ATHERTON This is what we expect We have been telling Defense so that they would not go public which they wanted to do saying that it was going to be the export model MR SISCO Clements a That killed it Why don't I give call and say precisely SECRETARY KISSINGER And tell him what Schlesinger 34 Pres MR SIS t Yes I'll 1 c us to come out we would meant was which I made that SECRETARY KISSINGER to So we But why lled doesn't one in this or me who know ts MR ATHERTON Well we SECRETARY KISSINGER sterday it they' 11 Yes e start leaking it now MR SISCO They've written the press story already MR ATHERTON It could lead to questions MR FUNSETH They already leaked it to the press this morning MR SISCO I know SECRETARY KISSINGER MR KATZ ends today The Second Session Also there's a that's been going all week On DECLASSIFIED Authorityfi -r '- -- -- - the Go ahead of Jules the Commission copper consultation in Geneva and that ends today as well Commission after a slow start they've H CpfOOUCt 'U ttlllll ' 111 llla•• ' ' '' '-' 35 had some very good discussions this week in detail SECRETARY KISSINGER MR KATZ Well On what subjects in the energy area they've been talking about the effects of oil prices for example the macroeconomic effects of oil prices The producers have raised questions about how to protect the value of their earnings but these discussions are characterized by a minimum of rhetoric And contrary to the first session there's full participation by all of the members of the Commission All of the LDCs are now making interventions Similarly in the Raw after a Materials Commission very slow start and they're not being quite sure how to proceed the've gotten into detailed questions now Where this all leads to is not clear it's useful in an educational sense that people are not making speeches they're talking about the real analytical issues that are involved If you go into the next meeting with UNCTAD then of course I think it becomes all highly political Similarly in the copper discussions this is the first consumer producer meeting we've had on the I think l eprootn cu aLIIIt ' ' ' 36 The report ous quite s we have is that they have really been We have said Let's start discussing the problem before we talk about measures and they've accepted that The only problem on the copper talks has been the UNCTAD in '77 Secretariat which will be getting worse We said We don't need the facts we know what the facts are SECRETARY KISSINGER Who runs the UNCTAD Secretariat MR KATZ A man by the name of think he's been doing some and I C consultations around the world on the future of UNCTAD and he's recognized this problem that the Secretariat and the professional staff see themselves as an LDC Secretariat and they're not objective in any sense of the term I think this 1s one of the real institutional problems with UNCTAD MR LEWIS proposedthat may going to set up their own in UNCTAD he wants to be a Secretariat form Df CLASSIFIED Aulhorityi ' Some people will have to be One of the things that very well happen KQ a has is that they're Secretariat separately more balanced negotiator in And 37 MR LEWIS That may happen SECRE'I'ARY KISSINGER What MR MAW We will have two MR KATZ that might be a question is Well I '77 Secretariats don't think so good pointI don't know Who will pay for that I think The The UN Secretariat has to pay for that '77 Mr Secretary the other point I think that you know that the President's speech to the textile industry today probably will have the reference SECRETARY KISSINGER I was told it would be ta ken out MR LORD It's a memo to the President saying you oppose any reference to it but Baker and Mortonand Dent are more for a compromise language SECRETARY KISSINGER language possible PRC not matter how There is no compromise Once the President mentions the softly he's got himself a major problem MR LORD I couldn't agree more I think you better call the President SECRETARY KISSINGER DECLASSIFIED uthority J Well I called Scowcroft 38 and he told me it would be taken out MR LORD The other positions are also on the table MR HABIB This is as of yesterday evening they were still having it in MR KATZ seven last night I Well as of about a quarter to was told that it went in to the President with the statement that Morton and Dent and Baker wanted it in and you were opposed And I assume Scowcroft was opposed SECRETARY KISSINGER Who's Baker What's his standing in there MR KATZ No 2 in Commerce MR HABIB No matter how they adjust the wording it's still the tac k'r MR LORD And as I understand the only country mentioning the speech ' £'' MR KATZ is a It's the only country where there problem MR LORD Yes but you can talk in general terms about the problem SECRETARY KISSINGER DECLASSIFIED Authority S You cannot mention the PRC 39 without having a major crisis with the PRC will not be done without an abso this And it uproar out of lding and nobody is going to cooperate with that sort of approach MR HABIB I think Morton is going to take the call from you SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HABIB Yes SECRETARY KISSINGER now In fact I see you for a MR EAGLEBURGER Yes Whereupon IH CLASSIFIED Authority ffi liJ I'll put in a have to call the President Larry can I Meeting was concluded Has he been inviting it minute sir at 8 56 a m the Secretary's Staff call right
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