Main Content of the Conversation between A N Yakovlev and the US Undersecretary of State Reginald Bartholomew October 8 1991 I received R Bartholomew at his request The conversation centered on issues related to the latest initiatives by the USSR and US to limit and reduce nuclear weapons R Bartholomew emphasized that George Bush s initiatives and MS Gorbachev s response to these initiatives are creating a completely new situation both in U S-Soviet relations and the world as a whole These initiatives were the result of an incredible act of will for both sides President Bush described the Soviet side s response as very good news which according to Bartholomew is a very strong statement in the US The Undersecretary of State also emphasized that the initiative to take these steps came from President ush personally After the failed August coup in the USSR President Bush told General Scowcroft that it is necessary to undertake a major initiative of this kind Bartholomew believes that in the coming days right- wing circles in the US and other opponents of disarmament will begin a propaganda campaign against George ush in this regard artholomew described the purpose of his visit to the USSR as follows not to hold of cial negotiations but to explain the content of the President s initiatives and the motives behind them as well as to better understand what the Soviet side has to offer in response Bartholomew was particularly interested in the positions of the Soviet Republics especially Ukraine but also to a lesser extent Kazakhstan and even less the on their possession of nuclear weapons and their participation in the formulation and implementation of the general Soviet national security policy Describing the US Administration s position in this matter Bartholomew said In our conversations here in Moscow with representatives of Ukraine and Kazakhstan I stressed diplomatically but clearly and decisively that the United States really does not want to see the emergence of several new nuclear powers The US would like to preserve and continue the situation that existed up to now both in Soviet American relations as well as the regime of non proliferation of nuclear weapons in the world If anyone thinks that the possession of nuclear weapons will give them additional leverage in domestic affairs or relations with the US then the result will be the opposite of their expectations at least when it comes to relations with the United States The US is not interested in meddling in relations between the center and the republics in these questions It seems that the republics should have a voice in what happens with nuclear weapons that are located on their territory but this is a question they can resolve only with Moscow This question is fundamentally different from the issue of acquiring the status of newly independent nuclear states According to Bartholomew the representative of Ukraine said during their meeting that his republic wants to have a voice and representation when matters concerning the nuclear weapons located in Ukraine are decided However Ukraine does not claim are beginning to make unprecedented cuts in nuclear weapons it is very important not to get sidetracked from this main question the production of ssile material Bartholomew stressed that he was expressing a purely personal point of view but said that this question warrants a review They will study it This does not anticipate a decision but they will study it in light of the new situation the past one of the arguments had been the possibility of production of military fissile material at Soviet civilian reactors But these kinds of materials could be created from the nuclear weapons scheduled for destruction Personally I would like to stop their production A possible solution could be found within the framework of the Middle East settlement which would ban the production and import of materials for military purposes at the international level and in the context of supporting George Bush s proposals on the Middle East nuclear testing the number and scale of tests have already been reduced to a minimum In the US scientific and military circles the prevailing opinion is that some minimal testing is necessary in order to guarantee the maximum environmental safety of nuclear weapons as well as their reliability in storage in other words to make them as safe as possible in all respects during peacetime am not making any predictions but I think this point of view will continue to be influential R Bartholomew said in conclusion that groups have been created in the US on security issues in the context of the adopted initiatives He is heading one of them this group will work on arms reductions and the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons By the way he noted that the US announced a contest for a new term instead of arms control The second group will work on the concepts of deterrence stability and mutual trust suggesting high con dentiality of the consultations and discussions Signed Sourcez State Archive of the Russian Federation GARF Fond 10063 Opis 1 Delo 278 Translated by Anna Melyakova for the National Security Archive