C05674839 PPROVED FOR RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 - b 3 CIAAct------------- ------- 6 August· MEMORANDUM SUBJECT i 1977 FOR THE RECORD Briefing of S_enator John Glenn Democrat Ohio on the NUMEC Case 1 Background Senator Glenn's office had been in dialogue b 3 CIAAct with the Agency via OLC for several weeks on the question of the · NUMEC diversion issue The Agency had init ially steered Senat r Glenn toward discussing his questions with the FBI and ERDA After the Senator had completed this action lie decided that he wanted ¥a discuss this issue--further with CIA As a result OLC with the A DDCI's approval had arranged for Mr Shackley ADDO to brief Sena for Glenn on CIA's knowledge of the· NUMEC diversion issue As resu it on 5 August 1977 Mr Shackley accompanied by '-pcs- -···- b NSC 3 a d OLC met with Senator Glenn at his office The - ---s nator had Mr Leonard Weiss present at the meeting a ' ----- p 3 CIAAct - - -2 Briefing The meeting started with Senator Glenn outlining the nature of his interest in the NUMEC cas_e As a result Mr Shackley drew on the talking paper outline·which is attached in order to make his presentation on the NUMEC diversioI _issue After Mr Shackley's presentation was completed there was a lengthy question and answer session he key questions that emerged from this meeting and the essence of the answers are outlined· below ti IMct b 1 ······ I ____ i i- · - 4 j -11 ·' b 3 -NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs 25X1 - A • C05674839 PPROVED FOR RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 - »C rlVC ' t b 3 Na ecAqt Ed· 13526 q_3 b 6 25Yrs 25X -2- c Question _ To what level did knowledge and or speculation oi the about U S Government NUMEC activity go Answer The recorq reveals that Presidents Attorney Generals Directors of'· FBI and key eo le in AEC and ERDA were briefed a 25X1 #···· b 11 d Question 'What came b 3 NatS'ecAct the Government to CIA · · EO 13526 3_3 b 6 25Yrs 1 I back down from the top of Answer The record shows that when President Ford lfriefed by DCI Bush on the NUMEC is-sue in the 21 to-28 April 1976 time frame President F ord directed Attorney General Levy to have 'the FB ieinstitute its of NUMEC In this context it· investigation was poL'rl ted out·that-Mr Duck t had rela ed a vi nette to us which indicate vas ' ·i' •i -· - It was then pointed out th at clarification· of this point could only really come from those who were direct partict ants in the events at th time b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3_3 b 6 25Yrs b 1 1 ·-· --· t · tt 'i v-N· s r -t i - i ·• ·z - - · C05674839 PPROVED FOR RELEASE · CIA INFO DATE 25-Au ·2015 e Question on NUMEC - - - Has President Carter been briefed Ye The r cord indicates that Answer DCI ush gave President-elect Carter information on the NUMEC issue in the period around 19 1976 Senator Glenn was also advised November that we were aware that Dr Jessica Tuchman had been working ·on preparing a briefing for · Dr · Brzezinski on the NUMEC issue in recent It was pointed out that in our discussion days with Dr Tuchman we had been led to under-· stand that this briefing would also be made available to President Carter It was stressed that authoritative answers on this type however of a question could best be obtained from direct contact with the White Hause £ Question any CIA documents occurred Are· there any conclusions t hat state that diversions I outlined actually ·oi h Answer Mr Shackley and stated that t _'lieyhad not seen any single document had occurred which flatly· stated that a diversion In this context the whole process of' deductive reasoning-and the difficulties of establishing a ·counterintelligence typ of-··tase which would lead to a flat conclusion that a diversion had -At the same ·Occurred· was again repeated time it was stated that new docum nts might be wicovered as we searched our files which wot1ld alter this conclusion in · ' b 3 NSC b 3 CIAAct ·- -· C05674839 · • PPROVED·FORREl EAS E- CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 SENSflVE b 1 -4- ' - b 3 NatSecAct EO 1 354 ' 6 _ _2s_v_r_s ------------------- Answer Mr Weiss was told that we were not aware of such a filE and repeated essentially the answer which was provided to question£ · h Question If a poll were to be take of CIA officers in the N MEC matter would the conwho were involved clusi9n be that the materials had been diverted b 3 NSC b 3- IAAct ·· ··· · · J f------- b 3 NSC b 3 CIMct what Answer We are not able to estimate a poll wou I d reveal I µt·eICpointed out how the question had initially been raised as to whether a diversion had occurred In · short alL of the old ground was plowed once again with the conclusion being that we knew of no flat conclusion· that said diversion had occurred i Question Why keep the investigation if there was no evidence of diversion about this issue · of NUMEC What do es · ············· b 3 NSC -········ b 3 CIAAct ···--c hink • alive b 3 NSC b 3 CIAAct Answer I utli d his views on what type o f steps needed to be taken to establish whe era diversion had or ha __ 1 not occur ed ·-·-------In this context Mr Shackley made the polllt -tiia ti lhad been part of an institutional process at CL I which had resulted in the di- _versio questions being aised It was sl res ---······- b 3 NSC that tlus was not something that · • -- b 3 CIAA t had done alone It was also pointed out that · C was not a· disaffected employee who '--- ---- wa s on a crusade Senator Glenn indicated that he understood these points but simply wanted to obtain a better feel for why the to press for an Agency had £let compelled £ i INUMEC invest -------- b 1 b 3 CIAAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs S r··1v ••I • S CR T · · i ' ·l C05674839 ' PPROVED FOR REl EASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 j Question Are there FBI and CIA on NUMEC bad connections between the Answer No The point was stressed that CIA and the FBI simply took difference approaches to the basic question · On the one hand CIA was which would clarify trying to obtain information an intelligence estimate On the other hand the FBI was looking for material that could be used case • in a c iminal ____ · -- ___ ······ I I to Director Helms' Answer The record had thus far not uncovered a written response from Attorney General Clark to DCI Helms' 2 April 1968 lette l to the Attorney General It was stressed however that the writt en record did show that there was a 3 September 1969 letter from FBI Director Hoover to Mr Helms in which the bottom line was the statement that the FBI was discontinuing its a tive ·investigation - 1 -· implicit - 1 3 NatSecAct ltO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs I - Questioni Was there an answer 1968 letter to Attorney General Clark k - Question suggestion Ans·wer m Question Answer living is still Did the answer address Director that there might be diversion Helms' No Is Carl Duckett No Mr Duckett in the Washington still with the CIA 1 as retired area but l I ·I C05674839 • • P ROVED FOR RELEASE - C A ' INFO DATE 25-Au -20'15 SE IT1YE -6- 1 b 3 NatSecAct O 135263 3 b 6 25Yrs n Question What ·did Jim Angleton· the NUMEC matter Answer CI St Mr 25X1 b 3 NSC was the ·chief Angleton to do with have of the As a resul b 3 CIAAct I had worked for Mr • Angleton In view of 1 this situation Mr Angletop Jiad obvious· y g b NSC 3 b 1 ··------ aware of·and inte·rested inl activities b 3 Natse·cAci ______ · _ThE point w s made that such activities obviously · EO _135263 3 b 6 25Y rs _____ focused on NUMEC 25X1 ·· · ____ _ f 1 I j b r···································· 1 b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs 25X1 · ··· b 1 · o Question Was there any U S involvement diver sio - c c c ---'-'--'-- --'---------'--- Answer No Senator Glenn was µien given a brief review ·---------- -- ----- I p Question 1 r'hat was the substance 11 conversation with NUMEC I s help b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs 25 1 in the of the cocktail Ans er The ·point was made that CIA could not really comment on this qu §tion because we hc -d no ffrm_ way 0£ car elating tliis event_ to any- thing that was in our tiles ·· q Question _ Does the CIA· have concerns fimilar to those about NUME C about any other U S plar t's that are __ _ handling nuclear matez ials Answer b 1 No b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs· 25X1 i _ _ r I 1 - S t T l - '•• · - A - ·1 r• C05674839 PPROVED FOR RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 SEJQSITIVE • J -7- r Question case for CIA ·ebY 1 ········------------------ b 3 NatSecAct Answer ······-·----- m1 EO 1 526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs 25X1 · I Is NUMEC still No stressed It was an ·active considered however that I which would shed light on the possibility that NUMEC had diverted maforials to Israel this intelligence would be made available to the Justice Department and the FBI s Question Is there no current investigative or other --···· ·····························a c tiv ity going on in th e u • s o-r--Isi ael b 1 · '----------' b 3 jCIAAct Answer This question could most properly EO 1 526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs be put to the FBI t -··1 ____ ------- L Question Were others in NUMEC ------------------ ___ a-· b 1i b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct · EO 1•35263 3 b 6 25Yrs I 25X1 0 u Question ERDA- on the figures Would CIA I s technic al people of materials differ diyerted possibly V i Answer This question had never been put to the scientific people at CIA __ formally insofar as Mr Shackley or ascertain from the files It was stated however· ···· · iJ ---- 25X1 b 1 b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs --- b 3 CIAAct b 3 NSC b 3 CIAAct · • C05674839 PPROVED FOR RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 · -s-· that one had the impression from listening to general conversations that had taken place with our scientific personnel that it ·was clear that they understood the MUF concepts· that ERDA had been talking a bou t v directed Question What was that the investigation do rie after President Ford of NUMEC be reopened Answe r The FBI had reopened its investIt_was stated that CIA did not know igation the status of this investigation w Question certed conspiracy to Israel Was or is there to divert nuclear Answer CIA had no hard tained to this question any evidence of a conmaterials from the· U S facts which per- i l i0Jc1 x sabotage b 3 ciAAct b 3 NatSecAc°f···· EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs-- __ Question Is the CIA a ware U S nuclear installations Answer y -- Question i used s Was there in the··u- • z Question on pos-sible to No Answer This be put to·the· FBI focu s of any conspiracies · or any electronic surveillance otl rs involved in NUMEC was a question that should Did the FBI favestigation diversion of NUMEC -not Answer This was a question that should be put to the FBI It was pointed out that available documents indicate that the FBI investigation of I NUMECI IL__ __________ ' b 1 b 3 CIAAct b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs ___ _ t 1- C05674839 PPROVED FOc RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 -9- aa Question Have there been changes in the nature of the background investigations that are being conducted on managers and others associated with licensed plants handling nuclear _mate rials as a result of the NUMEC affair b- -1 Answer This is ·a question which is beyond to comment on It was ·suggested CIA s competence that th is fssue might best ce discussed with ERDA b 3 ·NatSecAct EO 11352€f'3 4 6 25Yrs I 1 • Answer No The previous explanations once again on this point were repeated bXtl b 3 Nat ecAct EO 13526-3 3 b 6 25Yrs - cc Question were Answer repeated dd Question on NUMEC_ Would the CIA reach Previous answers once again such a conclusion to this question Why did the CIA continue to brief 1-- b ' l ·-----------------·· Answer CI A continued to brief b NatSecAcf -------------------·--- on E0 1352 3 3 b 6 25Yrs this m ght relate to NUMEC _ _ Presidents how - ' b 1 b 3 NatSecAct EO 13526 3 3 b 6 25Yrs 25X1 l I - - • -1 -· ···· -· _ 5 I · Presidents _ 25X1 C05674839· PPROVED F OR RELEASE - CIA INFO DATE 25-Au -2015 -IO- ff Question Is the next sl ep for Senator Glenn to go and seek a White House decision on what should be done involved in the NUMEC affair or now Should everyone concerned about MUF get together to make some decisions b -1 b 3 Nat$ecAct EO 1 526 3· J i6 25Yrs Answer It was suggested that the Senator n iight want to discuss this question with someone like Dr Brzezinski ra ther th an CIA_ 2sx1 I I ' I 1 I· 3 Comment Senator Glenn appreciated the receipt of the data that was covered in paragraph 2 At the conclusion 0£ the meeting one was clearly left with the impression that Senator Glenn was considering pursuing a mo-r --detailed investigation to the NUMEC diversi n issue via a Senate earing ---- ' Associate Attachment Talking Paper Outline Distribution 1 - DCI V att boo' - A DDCI w att 1 - DDO w att 1 - OLC w att 1 C SIA w att · extract 1 - SA D0 0 v tt Theodore G Shackler Theoaore G Shackley Deputy Director for Operations