DECLASSIFIED Authority 29026 m JOINT CHIEFS or sun wasnmarou Wan September 1971 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT JCS Meeting 1500 Friday 10 September 1971 General Chapman Lt General Vogt Lt General Knowles Present Admiral Moorer General Ryan Admiral'Zumwalt General Palmer 1 The Chairman opened the meeting by passing out a copy of a letter he received from Congressman Lennon asking the JCS to testify on September 20 The Chairman pointed out that Congressman Lennon is the Chairman of a Special Subcommittee on TranSportation and that he is operating independently Mr Laird has talked to Hebert who is trying to turn this off However the Chairman pointed out he wanted to alert the Chiefs because they would be under the gun if Lennon has his way Admiral Zumwalt asked when we would know The Chairman responded that Hebert is out of town but we should find out sometime on Monday He also pointed out that Mr Laird does not want the Chiefs to appear before any committee of Congress without a member of OSD present He said he would keep the Chiefs advised General Ryan said that he had warned General Meyer to be prepared to attend if required since General Ryan would be in Hono lulu on that date The Director pointed out that he had information that Shillito may back off on the entire concept since it is becoming nonproductive 2 The Chairman said that he would like to discuss the COmmand and control problem which he had mentioned at the last meeting Mr Packard talked to General Starbird and showed him the wiring diagram General Starbird told Mr Packard that it would not work and talked himself out of being assigned to head up a task force to study the problem The Chairman then passed out a chart showing one version of DocId 31291446 Authorityt'iniljizdo L his idea to get a sharp how the problem might be solved He said he wanted to dis cuss this version -He said that it was an idea to give the peeple in OSD the feeling at least that they would have direct access to the forces He suggested that they take a minute to study the chart He went on to say that at the top of the chart is a requirement element in OSD He said that overall this was his idea to get Mr Packard to agree Mr Packard has the impression he'll get everything done if he has one guy that he can turn to The Chairman said it was his idea to have him chair a_group we could then take command and control problems to this group and obtain deci- sions in concert and thereby avoid the tendenCy to bury requests and proposals in the Staff The Chairman went on to point out there is no change with regard to JCS proper and how they function However for the SIOP execution he has eliminated the nodes as Mr Packard calls them and the execution message would go straight from the JCS to the delivery forces and_simultaneously to the CINCs who would follow up with apprOpriate action The Chairman said it was three star guy who would he called the Assistant to the Chairman for Nuclear Force Control This officer would use the Joint Staff There would he no separate or Then for support he would have the JSTPOS located at Fort Ritchie This would be a slow transi- tion If we had an attack the Soviets would use sub- launched missiles initially The Rook is secure against them but not against 55 95 Consequently we would buy some time Under this concept a two star guy would he Director for Command and Control Systems Requirements developed would be dealt with by the Council shown in the right hand corner All other matters would be handled normally with no change in the method of handling plans and policies Chairman pointed out that we have looked at the equipment that we have in being today and we really cannot go directly to the forces We've got to have another relay in the vici nity of the forces Overall we need a lot more communica tions facilities A proposal Such as this could cut them off at the pass Another course of action would be to stone wall and wait until Mr Packard comes up with something or as mentioned before take the initiative and present something like this Basically Mr Packard wants direct access to the forces and he wants_to eliminate the nodes Admiral Zumwalt said that the Virtue of this proposal would_give him one guy to deal with the Chairman it answers his require- ment The Chairman then said the JCS will be right there with their strategic direction which is required by law The 2 ZQLK Docld 31291446 DECLASSHHED AuthorityW L -General Ryan What we really need is a sharp young officer as Assistant to the Chairman w someone like Jim Eade thought I d get a reaction on that one General Chapman said that the requirement for the CINCs to approve was built into the system The CNO said You need an airborne command post in the vicinity of Washington to make the concept work and if we had such a system we would always have a decision- maker aboard in order to get the execution decision out The Chairman said it would be hard to get the President out of the Washington area in a crisis However if we had him at Fort Ritchie that would be regarded as in the Washington area The idea would be to have an airborne command pOst as part of the overall system He-went on to point out that we had already selected airfields in the vicinity of Wash- ington where NEECAP could land and pick up-the President General Chapman I understood you to say that the Director of the Command and Control Systems and Facilities would be a requirements man only I visualize him being more of a message center chief Admiral Moorer 'That's what he is He really is manager of systems rather than a developer of equipment requirements Only Admiral Zumwalt That's the wisdom of making the group in the upper right hand corner a Council - General Vogt It looks like Packard has Hall lined up for the ASD for Intelligence Nothing wrong with_going directly as shown on this chart as long as the execution message also goes to - the CINCs simultaneously with regard to the JSTPOS initially I thought that the move to the Rock would be good Now I'm not so sure it's a good idea In order to keep systems hands off it's better if they are far away More over if you move them to the Rock you d have a gap of two years Also if you move them you'd have to triple the size Many of the peOple out there have double hats Admiral Moorer You're right about the dual hats 167 out of the 332 haVe jobs at SAC This looks all right if you are sure about I think they want to take over all General Palmer Mr Packard's_goal 3 DocIdz31291446 n _Laq DECLASSHHED AuthorityblaJSEZQ t w forces they would regard this as a first step and_then they'd ask themselves 'why not take over the rest of the forces It could work to the disadvantage of the JCS Admiral Moorer what is the alternative General Palmer Put the onus on them but don't help them Admiral Zumwalt This could head off a bad decision General Palmer But there are two big stumbling blocks to what they want to do Congress and the White House the overall concern of the man on the white horse Admiral Zumwalt But it's hard to argue against the logic of saving four or five minutes General Ryan We should-have changed the procedures four or ive years ago General Palmer We could work out procedures to save the time without changing the organization Admiral Zumwalt This would get Packard aboard General Rxan This is really a way to get the word out quic 1y General Palmer This is-the first step towards a super SAC 'This is a phased way to do it General Rzan The only time it would be used is when you execute the 810 The minute_you do that there'll be some significant structural changes that will automatically take place in Washington We wOuld use the same equipment we have now We would save four to five minutes in getting the word to the missiles but w0uld still have to go through TACAMO to get to the submarines Admiral Moorer Also the message would go through the regular route General Palmer I prefer General Chapman's wiring diagram General Ryan John Meyer also eXpressed the same conCern Bruce Docldt31291446 DECLASSIFIED Author'in L4 General Palmer The people upstairs-want the Chiefs out of the picture General Ryan Yes and they can take them out any time they want General Palmer No there are some key blocks Admiral Moorer My thought would be that we would meet with him and Show him this concept and tell him this is as far as we would go - General Palmer Suppose he doesn't accept this The danger is that they might put a civilian in the box where you show the new ASSistant to the Chairman Admiral Zumwalt Then we'd tell him you laughter Admiral Moorer I don't disagree with you Bruce but feel we can stop them upstairs for the time being I would not agree with anything going further than this This Would only be used in an_emergenCy General Chapman General Vogt Part of the problem is they think that all of actions that go through the Joint Chiefs go through the process General Chapmanz As a matter of fact there's merit to showing the Joint Staff out on the side then have a single box for the Chairman and the JCSL Admiral Moorer Why don't you draw that up Chappy This is just for execution Why move the Rock General Palmer JSTPOS out to the Admiral Moorer Well first of all we've changed the title as you will note also to keep the Rock going and they will be the planners and estimators for the new equipment They'd wOrk on the formats and the procedures and it would be more effective to keep these two_groups together It's now planned that they would send a 14 General Vogt We do this now for man team to the Rock in an emergency exercises DocIdz31291446 DECLASSIFIED AuthorityL-laJSS o Li General Palmer I see -- they become the sUpervisors once you decide to execute General an If they survive and can_get to the Rock it Will be very useful Did the-civilians buy-the idea that they'd do after the execution message goes out ucs A5 Dd Indcr Packard ggfged it might evolve to a protracted nuclear war General Palmer have nothing to Admiral Moorer what amounts to General Ryan We could 1056 two hundred million people and still have more than we had at the time of the Civil War General Palmer We d have to phase the move of that outfit over a period of time Admiral Moorer It would take a long time I don't think we ll get the 7475 until some time in 1975 O K -- let me draw this up again and we'll give the move to the Rock more study Packard's right there are a lot of nodes but they are all up in Foster's office That's where the 'foot dragging takes place If we could get Packard to make prompt decisions it would help General Ryan With this new Starbird concept we'd build one B l test it for two years and then if it worked out we would start the procurement program Shown on this chart the NMCC works for the General Palmer It should also be working for Aesistant to the Chairman the Director Admiral Moorer No that's a liaison line General Palmer I think it would be clearer the way General Chapman has draWn it General Chagman Doesn't my chart fix both points General Palmer Yes Admiral Moorer This chart doesn't mean that this is all he does I ve got additional jobs We deliberately portray this as SIOP execution and could have put in Command and 6 Z fg 6 DocId 31291446 DECLASSIFIED AuthorityW L EOE-SEGRET Control for Military Operations but I m trying to limit this General Palmer Maybe we should take the other out Admiral Moorer -We want to pass the word to them but they could Be taken off the chart We are trying to make it clear that the right side of the chart applies to all opera tions - General Palmer What you really have is two separate staffs both using the same execution means Admiral Moorer Matter of fact we have two choices to surface something like this or let them make the first move General Palmer What rank would you have in mind for the Aegistant to the Chairman and the Director Admiral Moorer Both three-stars General Palmer That s an additional two - 95 467 Admiral Moorer No just one Currently thegDirector of the JSTPOS is a vice admiral Also I have deliberately made this guy an assistant to me rather than a deputy That s so that people won't get the idea that he would take over in my absence Actually the Acting Chairman would carry out my responsibilities General Ryan I think the first thing to do is to clean up execution procedures first 4- set it up so that we can go directly to the forces and simultaneously to the CINCs 'and then wait and see what happens General Vo t We've already told them we could go directly to the forces but they are still holding up approval to some of our requirements in order to look at the organization 3 The Chairman then showed two new charts -- one show ing how it would operate from an airborne COmmand pest today and the other showing what it would look like in the future General Vogt -Packard definitely wants to_go directly to forces DocId 31291446 25-3 DECLASSIFIED Authority W General Ryan Technically it's not possible to do that today Admiral Moorer What I think we can do is to change the procedures so that things go directly without changing the overall organization We can draw up a couple other veru sions I think Packard is adamant on having someone to talk to General ChaEman There's merit to having a manager Admiral Zumwalt Tom was talking about a guy with substance like Jim Eade -u someone who would always be in town Admiral Moorer He'd also be available to the Acting Chief You knowL the guy who really determines requirements is the l- guy that draws the line through the line items in the budget General Ryan cemmented on the current budget exercise Admiral Moorer I'm going to ask General Vegt to get the Op Deps together to'work on this some more and clean it up General Rxan Are we working on one problem or two Are Mr Laird and Mr Packard together on this Admiral Moorer I think we're working on two different problems General Ryan Yes Mr Packard is trying to make it work and Mr Laird is trying to take over control Admiral Moorer I agree with Bruce but I don't think that they can get away with it General Chagman I think there is merit in letting them take over -- Admiral Moorer We'll get the blame if'anything goes wrong and we'd better have some way'to influenCe the situation General Vogt If they took it over they would write the SIOP and the various options General Palmer They could make your assistant a civilian 8 w mm f DocIdz31291446 251 DECLASSIFIED Authoritymdizco Admiral Moorer l'd tell them to get another boy General Ryan What's behind this We've had nuclear weapons in the hands of the military since 1945 Admiral Moorer Probably better jobs and more prestige General Palmer It's the old that the military is stupid This approach will eliminate the one solid Admiral Zumwalt the need to save time argument that they have Admiral Moorer Well we ll have the Op Deps consider it When we preSented the briefing to Packard we showed on'the screens in the NMCC that we have eight letters upstairs on 'this subject and have received no answers General Vo't We've been trying for three years to_get the baSic directive changed and have still received no answer General Palmer They don t like the reorganization action Also they don't understand the problem 4 The Chiefs adjourned at aboutyi gefw rs x P s a I a a utmowrrs 9 2 5'5 DocId 31291446 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu