0812 0818 0819 0832 0914 0944 message THURSDAY 23 SEPTEMBER 1971 Arrived at the Pentagon BGEN Pauly and the duty weather officer called to brief me on the weather in the Panhandle in North Vietnam There is a Window that will be Open for approximately 48 hours with improved ceilings scattered to broken level and would be_good for strikes in the Dong Hoi area NOTE With both the President and Dr Kissinger leaving town todaygit_is very doubtful that any strike will be authorized I Received a telephone call from Admiral Zumwa1t He said he was having lunch with Henry Kissinger today and would discuss the Far East situation and the role for the Navy and Marines He plans to talk about land based versus sea based air poWer He will also address the Iceland and Malta and include the law of the sea He does not plan on raising the 1arge carrier versus small carrier issue and thinks it would be better to come from me but if Henry raises it he will respond I said to go ahead and talk about it along the lines of his paper Zumwalt is not sure of the best approach He wants to stick to the large carriers and would if he were 80% confident of Laird and Packard's support ' He_would also go for the Nuclear carrier but he does not have that confidence The trade off for the nuclear'carrier would be to switch to conventional carriers and try for two more 688 Class submarines which would cost the same thing He asked what the politics were I said I think you have to play it withyfirst choice second choice option You could ge caught and have to eat a lot of words if he shifts it back Zumwalt is going to try to avoid the guestion but may address home-porting - Chairman's Briefing - NMCC Called Admiral Weinel on the telephone and asked him if he had seen Throck Morton's planning Blackie said he hadiand felt that he was reacting and misunderstanding the problem He has EUCOM in his office who says that or the new CINCRED and his components are concerned and will be working ontthe deploy- ment planning and employment planning EUCOM is supposed to do that and how he employs the forces will not be responsibility I said I think he is right the unified commanders that need assistance should come to him-and not to the component commanders Blackie said EUCOM made the first mistake I said EUCOM is talking about day to day working relationships between staffs and not betweenicomponent commanders their component commanders and CINCREDS components over here In principle be isrcorrect Called LTGEN Vogt on the telephone said that he has made a couple of changes to the paper that Packard sent down and also he talked to Mel Zais and Jack James about it I asked him what was the problem with Packard being out of sorts V09t said that is what Furlong reported -- he came down and recommended that you do not volunteer to talk to him today on anything that requires any negatiatingh Said 0 DocId231291446 0955 he is not in the mood but if he calls for you it is another thing I think it might be a' stall so they can twist it around the other way I asked what their staff came up with He said they had a lot of duplication Vogt told him that we had eliminatedia lot of the duplication in our version He-said good and apparently that is all the contribution they made He wondered if the MSC thing was still a problem I said it was not smoldering it was in-flames it has blown all out of proportion Helen Bentley has gotten into the act and it really depends 'on whether Laird can make Herbert turn off his committee because they-are really going after the legal aspects Of course I said their whole problem is they are all out of joint because they were not-consulted I said I told Dave Packard the other day that youzjust can not do things-in this town that way You have to go around and touch bases with the exeeutive 'legi5r lative and make sure there is no law violated I told Packard the other-day my counsel confirmed that-it did not change the function of the JCS Of course I narrowed it'down to the Specific statute that he was asking about and not the whole reorganization act It-says that the JCS would coordinate with the Services and pro- vide the guidance with respect to contingency planning There may well be other parts of the rebrganization-act that were not violated Called Admiral Duncan on the telephone and told him that I had just gotten a letter from Peter Hill Norton and he asked if I-could take Eileen to New York and told him thath could not but there was ample Commercial air transportation available I said I was transPorting the wives _to Norfolk in my airplane but I would arrange her flights I just_could not see making a speoial flight'to-go to New York Duncan said he would not do that for me either I said I would not ask him Anyway he thanked me for my letter and understood about the private plane and said Eileen has now decided to join the others - She wants to spend the night of the 28th in Norfolk -- so lets try and put her back in the schedule Duncan said he knew about it and he is going to stay with Holloway He had accepted with a request for reservation by here this will get him out of the Rhode Island house _ Duncan thinks it would be good for Jimmy- and Peter Hill to get to know each other Duncan said he receiVed an invitation to the White-House fOr the qeremony presenting'a medal to Brosio on 29 September He said he did not think he should'make it if the President wanted to see him for aboutaahhalf an hour he would Ibreak his neck getting there but this is a formal event and he wbuld not even get to talk to him I-said we would take care of it some secretary probably sent it-without checking and I would get in touch with them and square it faway I said to not answer it until he hears from me Dunean said he was sure I would_get one too They all know about this military committee tour -but they do not know that- Duncan is on it Andy Goodpaster is-in the same boat I said he does not live in the country and they probably dennot-know he is here on the- MC tour This is not a command performancey but shows_poor planning awhen Brosio is in Canada 'we are here and when we are in Canada Brosio DocId 31291446 ail-n 1005 turned over as of now is here I am not going to break off from the tour at Offutt I - Met with LTGEN Woolwine LTGEN Vogt and LTGEN - KnoWles in my office to hear Woolwine's Vietnamization Logistics Briefing fHe-indicated that the plan was going on track-and according to plan It covered the fellowing major items ammunition 120 day supply POL tilled to capacity primary equipment for FY 72 and 73 crimp secondary equipment for a four year stockpile In ammunition the ARVN have on hand 93K tons of the 120 day supply of 180K tons The VNAE have 20 6K tons of-a requirement for 50K tons The major problem on ammunition is storage If the war were to stop tomo row ammunition would be a great problem fo he ARVNs because their storage-facilities are not all ready POL All the on-hand requirements exceed the program and there is no problem Title Transfers We-have been proceeding with the in-country equipment'stockpile The out of country equipment is being prepared for transfer when told on four day notice - Major Army Items The ABVNAF is in good shape on the major items and have received the majority of the items required Nagy Items Two ships are on loan to the VNN until it is decided if they will_be turned over or not The ACTOVRAD will be turning over 20 radars in all and three have been completely Air Force Items The VNAF still have to receive sdme 530 aircraft to meet their requirements Secondary Items -4 Army ARVN are in_good shape on the secondary Support items - They have re- ceived the majority of a11 requirements Secondary Items Navy The-Navy is completely- on top of Secondary item turn-over and there is very little left topgo - Secondary Items -2 Air Force Theyhhave just about-completed their jOb and the VMNAF are in good position-on-this support Helicopter Parts There are many outstanding items and this-is a possible-problem area Communications and -- Tasks We have agreed to turn over the signal today in Saigon One problem will be COMSEG equipment -and how to of the equip- ment It will be something like nuclear weapons but the equipment will wind up getting out of the custodians sight Contractor support We-have 96 million dollars to absorb in this program Un-Programed Costs-Lees Army Navy - Air Force - 198M 5 The Navy says these' funds are already in an approved program so it is not an additional cost - However the Army and Air ForCe have not programed and have a sizeable variance with the Navy figures _The I G1- DocIdz3129l446 DECLASSIFIED 1045 Air Force has-been to absorb 90M on ammunition The Army is not hurt-yet and if'it is required to absorb the funds there should be about 185M to absorb We are making very good progress and are follow ' -ing the intent of Laird's memo SECDEF told the President On Monday that he was very pleased with the progress When the ships start arriving with the equipment it will be Very noticably How- ever it is difficult to hide tanks I said I I was very happy with the terrific job that J4 had done on this project and when you stop to think this war is being fought by draftees and with a logistic operation which defies imagination for both the United States and the Vietnamese forces General Woolwine left and Generals Vogt and Knowles remained behind to discuss Cemmand and Control again re-draft of the Packard memo as he had revised it and discussed-the pertinent laws and the way he_had applied them to-the directive _The major problem seems to be chain of command and the NCA If the NSA is addressed it includes the President SECDEF and the JCS and JCS will-provide strategic direction however if mentioned this needs to be defined in the paper I said the NSA was written when'they were thinking of a single service and it was pushed beyond the desired limit and it a civilian hand Vogt assigns_the missions to the unified commanders Said the military departments administer the forces used by the unified commanders For example1 the JCS can not order a strike without-the approval of the President JCS-fhrniShed advice-and_guidance to the NCA which really protects'Packard by ensuring that he is not Crossing Congress Un- fortunately Packard is only looking at the imple mentation of the plans and he forgets the great volume of communications involved intthe_plans and all wars are not going to be like'the Vietnamese warprotect Packard from another MSC flail We went through the paper page by page and discussed each change which General vogt had _recommended Most of the pages_had minor al- terations on them -r page one and-two were major changes-and are the real gut issue On page 8 there are some major changes where the duties or_the responsibilities of the CJCS are enumerated This gives an additional-validity to the CJCS in the executiVe chain - They have removed from the validating role and we can not fight howeVer validation is not one of his roles I also noted that is a technical man- and-that is exactly what he should be involved with the technical aspects I asked John to lay me out a line in line out on the paper showing the changes that-were made from Packard's paper and in the margin note the-citatiOn for theg legal authority or the quote which certifies this-change - We agreed that someone has to take charge and march off and as far as the budget is ccncernedf this program would be exempt from reprogramming it would-haVe to He funded W6 DocId 31291446 - a 1140 1210 i 1217 1233 1414 Received a telephone call from MrL Selden He told me that Peter Knaur the ISA special assistant for CongreSSional relations just dropped dead at 44 and they need to get a replacement He said he did a fine job and they-really need a good man there He thought perhaps Hoke Sisk USN Captain RET my former operations officer wOuld be a good candidate He_wondered if I thought Sisk 'would be interested in it even though it is not a prestigious job Hoke seems to be wandering around lost and he would be good because he- knows the people and how to get along on the Hill It would be a job with pay of about a year He-has not seemed to do well in his buSiness ventures so perhaps he might - be interested I said he knows his way around and why didn't they give-him a call Selden said he was just mentioning this to me because Warren Nutter wanted to talk to me about_it and see what I thought of said he used to be my operations officer and Selden said he met-him in Norfolk and knows he did a good job on the Hill Peter would be hard to replace because he had been doing it for ten years Selden said he apparently had some problem a few months ago At any rate he went home sat-down on the bed and died He_just did not show-up for work the next day and they found him Met with C01 Lucy and discussed his rationale on the legal aspect'of the reorganization act of 1958 and how the JCS'will not exercise command ' see attached memo Lucy sdid of course the President commands the Armed Forces but the NCA is larger than the GINCs and the law ' They can not exclude the JCS from this apparatus By law-the JCS can be taken out-of the-chain of command but not out of the body commanding the Armed Forces I asked why they_did not say what they meant when- they wrote these laws in the first place and why is it necessary to have an interpretation of everything Lucy said the changes depended on the circumstances and if the words were not absolutely plain an interpretation would be made I said the general counsel has given Secretary Packard just the opposite advice Lucy thinks that-Congress would back his approachg Lucy pointed out a very good fact that we were supposed to be ta1king about the for control and why try and change-the whole' concept 6f the JCS structure-over a minor peripheral problem Lucy said if the problem was defined in a long term than the specific elimination of the JCS is deliberate however they should not pull the JCS out due to a - simple change in function ' Only- he President or SECDEF have-the authority to change the chain of command is a much broader base than-the chain of_command I said the JCS was- put in the chain ochommand by President Eisenhower and-it actually does not show in the law At any rate I asked Bobeucy t0'lo this paper over very carefully and be sure'we were on the right track On our legal aspects - Received a farewell courtesy call from Timbrell the Defense Attache Canada Lunch in the Chairman's Dining Room Met with Admiral Zumwalt private um- DocIdz31291446 I Authority 1440 1540 1735 1800 Cbuild not-want-us to be too safe but for different reasons Received a telephone call from Admiral Zumwalt and he mentioned some things he forgot when he just visited me - He is uncertain_at what should be done abOut the SLBM flexibility and SALT negotiations Zumwalt said that the worst thing we could do would be to agree not to have the freeze and not build ULMS If we are going to let the Soviets have a loop hole then we should goose the ULMS program If they build we must I asked him if they took up the basic position of the freedom to mix -Bud said he -did not discuss that with the ULMS-question and made the statement that Congress will never authorize rims reffor the land based pro- gram and I said although dediCated they are trying desperately to get an agreement before election - I think they'handled the SALT negotiations inv a very amateur manner Bud said for political reasons they would leave out the Soviet and direct us to accelerate action on the ULMS If it comes out of SAFEGUARD will be fine I said yes that will be alright and that I still do not understand who took such 'a firm stand against the NCA because-NCA makes better sense for us than the Soviets In fact that is the_only thing that d0es make sense Bud said-he guessed the disarmament troops did I said Henry was sold on it and Packard was against the NCA 'Saying that Congress would nOt approve it is wrong fThe draft bill proved to me that if you go over there_and_give Congress the straight story they will go along with-anything logical and reasonable Anyway the SALT thing has been handled very poorly I said I talked to the_President several times but youxhave to-keep repeating it that our sub- marines-operate in friendly waters and their submarines operate in unfriendly waters We will always have an advantage if we maintain a big Nayy that adds to the stability of our sea- 'base deterrent and decreases the effectiveness of their sea base deterrent I said I-got a letter from the PROXMIRE thing - Bud said he also sent him a copy I asked if there was a hand written note on his and Bud_indicated no I said he had written me a notel Bud-thanked me for my help Swim call i Met with C01 Nutting and told him to make up a back-up book regarding NATO for my presenta- tion before Congress and that he should talk to Bob Lucy and prepare'a back-up book for me This will be useful both this winter before Christmas and as a reference for meetings Met with LTGEN Knowles and'discussed Fred Weyand taking over and'still maintaining his job as CINCBAC has come in with a message reafirming this as his position -and I asked Knowles if Weyand would be both CORDS and the Deputy MACV Knowles indicated he would be and that-he could do both jobs very well He thought perhaps that was thinking of some other slots de-felt it is possible for Weyand to make and relievevae than a three star couldxmove in to relieve him of both jobs Knowles said the Vietnamese think DocIdz31291446 1826 1833 1900 Weyand is the greatest thing going I said my concern was that as the war winds down the civilians would out and leave the military with the civilian jobs so we will get the blame no matter what happens They uSually proyide one of each so this will not happen I asked Knowles about Simons and we thopght it might be best to let sleeping dogs lie however said it might be_appropriate on the3anniyersary of SONTAY if they-did not give him a_meda1 to recall him and have a big luncheon and present an award to him Col Belles DIA and Col Davis called to show me the photo BDA of the PRIZE BULL strike Photographs were excellent and it appears we did a fine job on this strike 1 have sent a congratulatory message regarding the-strike Departed the Pentagon for Quarters Reception for Distinguished-Guests followed by the 28th Annual Dinner hosted by the National Security Industrial Association Sheraton-Park_ Hotel DocId 31291446 My This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu