Bush Library Photocopy Miscellaneous Handwriting From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive Bush Library Photocopy Miscellaneous Handwriting From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive Bush Library Photocopy Miscellaneous Handwriting From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive Brent Scowcroft handwritten notes of Bush-Kravchuk small group meeting Oval Office May 6 1992 P Kravchuk 5 6 92 K Kravchuk We agreed on a # of draft documents Brought a letter on START to give you later We are working it out P That very important Where are we B Baker We translated Uk text this morning We see 3 changes from last agreed text Two aren’t probs – one cures a prob we th ough t we had last night The one stating a position of Uk This formulation is acceptable to us if we can confirm it K I can put a right word in Uk to satisfy you B Prob in 3rd para of letter I th ough t we had agreement “Uk shall guarantee removal of all strat wpns incl strat off arms That has been changed back to strat nuc wpns If that could be changed back we are ok K Yes of course P That is good It is very important Nuc wpns are something Amer people focus on B Can I read a last para to you Reads That is acceptable in lieu of “position of Uk ” Z Zlenko It not a prob We accept it as you read P Shall we go in K One question becoming lost Started when Russians started making terr clams It relates to territorial guarantees We didn’t want to put that into a document but Uk people are worried about imperial tendencies beginning to show in Russia I say this because this question will be raised in ratif ication process I will have to show that intl treaty won’t leave Uk w o reliable security guar P I understand your prob We think a right way to go is to strengthen bilateral relations multi to integrate you into the West like NACC etc We think that’s From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive P President If you agree we’ll spend a few minutes here then Cabinet room lunch statements CD Camp David We can talk at CD but I want to show it to you Any sensitive subject you have we can discuss now the way to go There are concrete steps Hewitt group – that did _______ Several mil people in Emb in Kiev to provide tng training help in ________ civilian control We hope that is agreeable to you hope to reinforce it I believe in milmil relations would like to set that up Morozov has been here I would like to reciprocate K I spoke to Cheney today confirmed what you said That is good P That is general answer to questions of security I think will help K I agree entirely but consider psy chological factor Ukr lost millions in war would like to know that as we get rid of nukes one incident or ________ won’t lead to disaster P That underscores Jim’s point about integration w West Z Zlenko I agree but important factor is Am stand on this issue P We stand for peace nobody taking over anyone else B We have subscribed to CSCE – no change of borders w o agreement Also NPT guarantees describes This obligation we take very seriously P Indeed we do Shall we go in Source George H W Bush Presidential Library Brent Scowcroft Collection Miscellaneous Handwriting File Declassified as the result of a Mandatory Review request by the National Security Archive Transcribed by Tom Blanton for the Archive From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive B Greatest guarantee of Uk security is relation to West and its ________ eventual role in West There is great sympathy in West to Uk assoc iation in NACC etc 3838 QONFIDEt1TIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT Meeting with President Leonid Kravchuk of Ukraine U PARTICIPANTS The President The Vice President James A Baker III Secretary of State Nicholas F Brady Secretary of the Treasury Samuel K Skinner Chief of Staff Brent Scowcroft Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Roman Popadiuk Admbassador-Designate to Ukraine Dennis Ross Director Policy Planning Staff Department of State Thomas Niles Assistant Secretary for European and Canadian Affairs Department of State Ed A Hewett Senior Director for Russian and Eurasian Affairs NSC Staff George Sajewych Interpreter Leonid Kravchuk President of Ukraine Oleh Slepichev Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Yemelyanov Economic Advisor Head of State Duma for Economic Questions Anatoliy Zlenko Minister of Foreign Affairs Vasil Tkachuk Minister of Agriculture Yuriy Shcherbak Minister of Environment Oleksandr Maselskiy President's Representative for Kharkov Oblast Boris Sobolev Deputy Minister of Foreign Economic Relations Anton Buteyko President's Adviser for Foreign Affairs Oleh Bilorus Ambassador to the United States May 6 1992 12 00 - 12 45pm Old Family Dining Room DATE TIME AND PLACE The President Where· were we Where do you stand on the Crimea Is that driven by Russia itself President Kravchuk The problem with Crimea is artificial There are 1 6 million Russians a little more than 600 thousand U fainians and 200 thousand Tartars a number that is growing fZ QONflOEHTIAL Declassify on DECLASIU5 J O IN PAAT OADR PER E O 13528 aOO'l- 650- MrZ cS 3 1 ll From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive -• COHFIPiNTIA 2 The opportunities for Russians living in Crimea is greater than for Ukrainians living there Ukrainians in Crimea have no schools since tne Russians don't like special Ukrainian schools The kindergartens are all Russian Russians living in Ukraine for several generations do not speak Ukrainian and don't want to fl Some Russians made official statements at the Russian Congress of People's Deputies that it was necessary to protect Russianspeaking populations in other states This simply instigates Russians to act which is what happened in Crimea CfZ The deputies from the Supreme Soviet of Crimea are mostly from party structures of the former Soviet Union They were not elected as deputies of the Supreme Soviet % The President Are there divisions inside the Russian government Are some more activ j-n stirring up the Crimea than others Or is this universal V' President Kravchuk The majority of the forces speaking for the separation of Crimea from Ukraine are in the conservative factions of the Russian Parliament 21 We see developments moving according to that scenario western countries are included in the scenario Some Dr Hewett President Kravchuk are these papers authored by conservatives or are t ey official government documents I President Kravchuk These are government papers -- official analysis provided for Parliament The papers are being used as part of a long-term policy for Russia ¢' The President Doesn't Russia face problems of other republics taking steps in Russia i' C0HfI1'EU'fIAL- From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive Russian members of parliament were visiting the area Rutskoi came to Crimea and made aggressive statements there The Russian official structure hasyllocated funds to follow Ukrainian politics in Crimea Cf @Nf IPEJl'f IA t 3 I agree that Russia has internal problems -- problems of dissolution But they're not dealing with them Rather they are active in Trans-Dniester and Ukraine They have set up a para-military organization -- the Cossacks They claim the government has nothing to do with it But those Cossacks were involved in fight ng in Dniester Now they have representatives in Ukraine ft The Russian Government does not even make an effort t6 stop this activity ¢ What is their mission fl President Kravchuki They fought in Dniester They're soldiers of fortune -- mercenaries In fact they are not governed by anyone ¢ Mr Pavlychko Mister President 28 members of parliament of Crimea voted against the declaration of independence despite the pressure and terrorism against them The Steppe areas of Crimea said they do not support the statement The Crimean Tartars are strongly against the referendum ft The situation is dangerous Crimea I There might be a strong conflict in we have some friends in Russia -- Yelena Bonner and Yuri Afanasev for example -- who speak for true democracy in Russia and who believe Ukraine should be independent i There are also people who share their thinking in the Russian Parliament During voting on Crimea and the 1954 Act those people spoke out Secretary Baker happen 9' Will the referendum go forward What will President Kravchuk The decision on the referendum is nonconstitutional The Supreme soviet of Crimea was not elected It was appointed by the Parliament of Ukraine fo a period of time Its mandate was to prepare elections The deputies did not want elections They adopted a decision which goes beyond their competence In fact their decision is a violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine It is against the constitution That's why we say that it is not acceptable They were not elected The Presiden question COHFIQeiN tAL Is the resolution of the fleet tied up in Crimean From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive The President t • I cm E'IDSNTIAL 4 The President Is some of Russia's game-plan in Crimea related to the Fleet it the Black Sea The President ft Are you talking with Yeltsin regarding the Fleet question President Kraychuk Yeltsin and I issued decrees for the delegations to the negotiations But the Russian delegation got the instructi·o ns that the Black Sea Fleet belongs to Russia and that Ukraine should get very little I Russia already has three large fleets the Baltic the Northern and the Pacific Fleets Nearly 70 percent of all surface ships in the CIS fleet were produced in Ukraine Ukraine owns part of the fleet L We would like to make the Black sea a sea We don't need so many ships I would like s ips But Russia and the militar are a ' - P j §i-1 ¥ The President Fleet What is the make up of the crews of the Black Sea Are the crews primarily Russian and Ukrainian 1 President Kravchuki few others 1 Mostly Russian and Ukrainian There are a You know Mister President there are many Russians in prominent positions in Ukraine My Prime Minister Fokin is Russian Emelianov my economic advisor is Russian One-half of all children in Ukraine studied in Russian schools That shows Russians are not at a disadvantage in Ukraine ¢ on a per capita basis the Russians have more people than Ukrainians in education more newspapers more theaters That's why the Russian population in Ukraine voted for the independence of Ukraine in December Fifty-four percent of the Russian population in Crimea voted for the independence of Ukraine I am absolutely positive that there would be no problems if the Russians were not stirring them up ¢' G9NFI9EN'FIAL From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive I cm1F IDEMT IAL 5 The President The reason I asked on the ethnic make-up is that I was wondering if the dispute could step up animosity on the ships themselves ¢ President Kravchuk There are different positions serving on ships would like to end the speculation People ¢ Secretary Baker What are the differences Mister President between the positions of Russia and Ukraine on the Black Sea Fleet Have you agreed to divide it Does Russia believe it owns all of it Or does Ukraine believe it owns all of it l Why should Russia have authority over the fleet stationed in Ukraine we are guided by the agreement signed in Minsk by Yeltsin It is written there that states which have strategic forces on their soil decide which part shpuld be provided for common defense That is the wording Since the Black Sea Fleet is in Ukraine Ukraine should decide which portion goes to the common defense Russia says no We must be independent in deciding which part remains with us The President What flag flies over the fleet fl President Kravchuk We have ships with no flag Ships in the Baltic Northern and Pacific fleets fly the Russian flags Russia has said the Black Sea Fleet should also fly the Russian flag Apparently they haven't finished making those flags 7 There are lots of interesting people in Russia One person from Sevastopol said he was in Rutskoi's office and he noticed that a map on his wall shows Alaska in Russia Ji The President Now you're getting my attention p' Another dangerous sign I was with Russians at a conference in Bonn T ey didn't want to even hear of an independent UKraine ¢ Ukraine will never be on its knees Mr eavlychko l one basic argument in negotiations on the Black Sea Fleet Russia says it needs the fleet to counter the U S fleet in the Mediterranean yt'l -€0 fPIBStl'l'IAL-- From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive President Kravchuk Ukraine never wanted the entire Black Sea Fleet Russia has made statements of that sort There have been for exampl statements by Yeltsin that Russia owns the entire fleet '- I COtiFIDSN'FIAL 6 We are trying to act to avoid confrontation we have a common interest with the U S Russia says so but uses the fleet to counterbalance 1 he U S t President Kravchuk It is also important that the economy in Russia is in total ruin They claim to be the second military power in the world The President But you would agree I hope that it is very important we stay involved with Russia trying to work with Russia to be sure that they stay with democratic reform If we isolate Russia that would make it even more imperialistic which would be bad for other countries in the area President Kravchuk Yes we agree to that I want to emphasize that you and we should have relations with Russia but equal · relations Any assistance by the U S to Russia should not go to support imperialism The President Mister President we have the press in two minutes so we should break U -- End of Conversation -- -COHFIDENT IAL From the Nunn-Lugar collection of the National Security Archive •