Excerpts from conversation between M S Gorbachev and J Baker September 13 1990 0ne-on-one Gorbachev We are really entering a new phase where we will be more and more interested in each other in the spheres of political and economic relations will depend on each other And the scale of our economy is such that many of our projects will be hard to realize without U S participation on the same scale Although I have to say that the appetites of some of our neighbors are enormous … And now when this great country is undergoing a great transition it is very important that the United States was genuinely involved This is an integral part of our philosophy and politics I am speaking sincerely our generation of leaders cannot allow itself to fail … Baker Nobody in the world ever attempted to accomplish what you and your supporters are trying to do today We are talking about changing the way of thinking that developed over a seventy-year period Naturally you have to do it gradually step by step otherwise you will not succeed But I think you know that the President and I came to a firm conclusion a year ago we want your efforts to succeed because it corresponds to the core interests of the United States of the Soviet Union and of the entire world Gorbachev Yes this is dictated by objective logic Baker And now I will confess to you what I told my assistant a couple of days ago I am not a novice in politics I have seen many things but I have never seen in any political leader so much courage such guts as you have I know that you have to act under certain constraints and political limits I know how hard it is to come to the political decisions that you so courageously make I want to tell you that President Bush shares the same opinion about you Gorbachev … I would like to ask the President and you—I have asked several others about the same—notwithstanding all the problems that you are facing to find an opportunity to give us a no-interest flexible credit for $1-1 2 billion We need such a credit very much now for the coming period of economic stabilization … I understand you To go through Congress with this issue would take a long time and it would be unrealistic to count on that But maybe taking into consideration your immense experience you could help us get these resources through some other country Baker … In recent days I have engaged in collecting resources to finance our expenses related to the crisis in the Persian Gulf I have gotten some experience with how to ask for money Gorbachev Maybe something could be done for us too What is one billion for the Arabian prince who has $104-105 billion Baker … In four days I was able to mobilize $12 billion in three countries half of which will be directed to assistance to three countries that are most affected by the crisis Egypt Jordan Turkey I would like without linking it to this issue to touch upon one moment that we discussed today with minister Shevardnadze Could you help us with air transport for Egyptian and Syrian troops to Saudi Arabia We do not have enough transport aircraft for this I understand that it might be difficult for you to take this step but you did condemn the aggression with us you voted for the U N Security Council resolutions … I promise without linkage to this problem to look at what can be done in order to obtain a loan for you from some third country Gorbachev Next week we are expecting a visit from the minister of foreign affairs of Saudi Arabia And by the way the minister of science and energy of Israel is coming here too Baker Just please do not ask for anything from Israel because their money is ultimately our money Gorbachev … In conclusion I would like to say that notwithstanding this sharp crisis and the complicating circumstances we see new opportunities as well If we get the situation under control not allow an explosion and find a political settlement then we have an opportunity to put down foundations for new relations in the world a new world order The results of the summit in Helsinki were very well received in the world Baker Absolutely true We appreciate the position of the Soviet Union which was especially clearly expressed in the course of difficult discussions at the United Nations I shared my thoughts about possible next steps with E A Shevardnadze Now we have a real chance to make the United Nations work as its founders envisioned it This is really a chance to establish foundations for a new world But this would be impossible to do without solving the Iraqi problem first Gorbachev We agree with that Baker Iraq must leave Kuwait Kuwaiti leadership must be restored to power and everything else will follow In conclusion a couple of words about disarmament issues As I understand it the situation now is pretty bad President Bush and you promised the international community that the START treaty will be signed before the end of the year and that the agreement on reducing conventional armed forces will be signed in November in Paris However we are not moving with the speed that would be needed to solve these tasks in the determined timeframe I hope that E A Shevardnadze agrees with this assessment Shevardnadze I agree Gorbachev So you and Shevardnadze are less optimistic now than me and President Bush Baker Yes I am less optimistic The situation is terrible We have to move much faster because political events are getting ahead of us In the conditions where you agreed to withdraw your troops from Eastern Europe during the next four years the agreement on conventional forces looks quite different We have to conclude it because it will lose any meaning altogether Gorbachev I am in favor of completing all the work I am asking you to discuss with out minister what should be done about it This is very serious Baker Good Thank you for the conversation Mr President I was very glad to see you Gorbachev Give my regards and best wishes to President Bush Have a great trip Source Archive of the Gorbachev Foundation Fod 1 opis 1 Partially published in Gorbachev Mikhail Sobranie sochinenii Moscow Ves Mir 2013 v 22 pp 94-97 Translated by Svetlana Savranskaya for the National Security Archive