SECRET THE WHITE HOU WASHINGTON 9284 k 1- s MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT Meeting with General Mikhail Moiseyev of the USSR U PARTICIPANTS The President Vice President Lawrence Eagleburger Acting Secretary of State Richard Cheney Secretary of Defense General Colin Powell Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Brent Scowcroft Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Robert Gates Assistant to the President and Deputy for National Security Affairs Condoleezza Rice Special Assistant to the President for Soviet Affairs NSC Staff Notetaker Peter Afanasenko Interpreter General Mikhail Moiseyev Chief of Staff Aleksandr Bessmertnykh Ambassador to the U S General Colonel Vladimir Denisov Colonel Feliks Popov Interpreter DATE TIME AND PLACE October 2 1990 9 30 - 10 00am EST The Oval Office General Moiseyev We are glad to have this meeting so that military-to-military ties develop as do the ties between our two countries U Yesterday General Powell and I signed a plan for militarymilitary exchanges and yesterday Secretary Cheney received us for a substantive discussion We addressed all outstanding issues including the Vienna Talks etc We discussed many other points and the exchange permitted us to understand the contribution of the U S to what we are doing The President Dick Cheney told me of your talks I'm glad we're off to a good start We are very interested in both START and CFE We have a common understanding that we must have a CFE agreement to have a successful CSCE Summit It is good that we have the CSCE Summit on the horizon We have said we must have an agreement for us to attend and the Soviet side agrees We told Mr Shevardnadze that we want to push forwardbECtAssi lEb PER E O 12958 SECRE AS AMENDED 2 Ooo-o -F '6'- I oe J §ECRB'Y SE6REf want any bureaucratic blockage START may take longer but I have pledged our flexibility Shevardnadze raised my visit to Moscow I look forward to it He mentioned late this year or early next We told Secretary Baker to move on out to try to get both agreements wrapped up We want both no game-playing That's all moving forward even if it seems too slow sometimes I am pleased with the military-to-military contacts These help ensure that we will never have mistakes or conflict based on misunderstanding yn Have you talked about the Persian Gulf Let me make a couple of comments We know it's not easy for you You have had a close relationship with Iraq We were trying to improve our relationship too Some say we were stupid to try I know it makes it difficult to take the position you have at the UN Our meeting in Helsinki was important in that regard and we thank you for that The UN countries were solid in terms of Hussein's aggression I want to hear your evaluation of what he means to do Ershad of Bangladesh knows him well and told me it will be hard for Saddam to turn back The levelling of Kuwait worries us I would welcome your comments We still want to see a peaceful resolution People also tell me we should be alert to terrorist acts I'll understand if you don't want to comment jI General Moiseyev The position of the USSR and the President is clear From the first day we have supported the position against Hussein Annexation is impermissible But it is not possible to use arms for this Our idea of revolution is that it should be peaceful without using arms We realize that a military solution would not bring additional dividends The eastern character must be understood and that of Saddam as a person We have not exhausted all the peaceful possibilities Secretary Cheney and I talked about this I said that the Military Staff Committee of the UN should be more active They should have an assessment and judge the possible consequences A resolution might come with deployment of the UN Emergency forces This would add to the • importance of the UN and would make it capable of solving any critical situation If necessary a resolution should be passed to authorize their employment A statement and ultimatum for the withdrawal of Iraqi forces should be set If the deadline is passed the emergency force should come into place Today Saddam is nervous There are rumors that a military overthrow is possible there have been some erratic movements Pressure exercised on Saddam should be concentrated and focussed He is afraid for his life actually The President We can't rule out terrorism against us We know he is dealing with terrorists against us This concerns us I didn't realize he might be worried about terrorism against him yn General Moiseyev He will not risk war against the rest of the world if we could have the emergency force employed He has brought his people to the brink Unusual processes are underway in Iraq Economic problems have brought it on Soldiers are beginning to desert He cannot maintain order only by shooting deserters 11 The President Maybe he's feeling the pinch of the sanctions We have several assessments Maybe they will be more effective than we think We must stay in touch The fundamental point is that we are together The single most important point is containing him yn What else did you talk about Cheney Secretary Cheney We talked about the changes in the Soviet mili tary and our own changes 7 General Moiseyev We are experiencing difficulties We are trying to address all the problems We need to increase our knowledge of each other My relationship with General Powell is growing We met in Vienna and now we are like old friends We are trying to improve our understanding The President In spite of all the tensions US kids never shot at Soviet kids Now it's unthinkable One of the best things is contemplating the changes taking place Who would have thought that this was possible The Soviet military is getting younger and younger U General Moiseyev My life story is actually similar to General Powell's We were commissioned in the same year married the same year we have a boy and a girl I know this because General Powell took me to his residence U The President Is your top command structure younger U General Moiseyev No I am the youngest at 51 The military chiefs are close to 67-68 Your military commanders are younger The junior ranks are relatively young U It is always with gratitude that we have improved our chances for peace Every generation has made a contribution The historical circumstances have changed We assess events of the past differently U The President I wish you well Please convey my respects to President Gorbachev We have a good personal relationship I look forward to staying in touch U OJ f ' 1 SES l ' ' '-- l