'-- r-C' c - ·'- - h • __ i ____ _-- D J 1853 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT Telcon wit'h Chancellor Kohl of Germany PARTICIPANTS The President Helmut Kohl Chancellor Notetaker Robert Hutchings NSC Staff Interpreter Gisela Marcuse DATE TIME AND PLACE February 18 1991 12 04 - 12 32 p m Camp David Chancellor Kohl initiated the call The President Chancellor Kohl are going well The President Helmut U How are you today Quite well U U There is a lot of work but things U You are nice to call What is going on U Chancellor Kohl There are three things I wanted to discuss The first is a conversation I just had with the Iranian foreign minister who was just here What was quite interesting was that he reported that his side and yours started from the assumption that Iraq suffered substantial damage He said that he had a conversation with the Iraqi foreign minister yesterday before he went to Moscow In the conversation the Iraqi let the information seep through that there had been heavy damage Obviously the Iranian foreign minister has known his counterpart for a long time and he said that this must have had the agreement of his government back home in Baghdad Velayati is of the opinion that they are trying to find a face-saving option a way out I told him quite clearly that the declaration on Friday was clearly not in that direction but he said that even in the face of what I told him he still believed they were trying for a face-saving option He also told me they are pinning their hopes on the talks in Moscow This morning I got a call from Gorbachev during a break in his conversation with the Iraqi foreign minister This was because we had agreed on a date and hour before he knew of that meeting we wanted to talk about the Two Plus Four in the Supreme Soviet Incidentally he assured me he wanted to push it through at all costs He also said he would call tomorrow to report on the results of the Iraqi foreign minister's visit and that he also intended to call you So I don't really know any specifics but I have the impression that SECREr Declassify on OADR DECLASSIFIED PER E O 12958 $ A_MENDED Sf iCREg something is happening within Iraq have to wait and see j · As to the outcome we will The President That is interesting We have to see that Iraq will comply I don't know about face-saving for Saddam Hussein That doesn't interest me The important thing as you know is compliance with the UN resolutions % Chancellor Kohl George the Iranian foreign minister was very clear He said they will have to comply with the UN resolutions demanding they withdraw 1 The President Helmut did he mention reparations and other conditions ¢ Chancellor Kohl No What he did was try to explain that the conditions were not really conditions What he wanted to tell me and he considered this the most important point was that Saddam Hussein did not make reference to Kuwait as his 19th province He thought that meant he was preparing for withdrawal I am only reporting not assessing The President I agree It was the only thing that was new and encouraging The rest of it was totally unacceptable 7 Chancellor Kohl Did Mikhail Gorbachev try to get in touch with you after his conversation fl' The President No but I think Bessmertnyhk will try to get in touch with Baker On the other side we cannot and will not permit Saddam Hussein to bring victory from the jaws of certain defeat U Chancellor Kohl I am in complete agreement with you but if I understand the message coming out of the Iranian foreign minister correctly Saddam Hussein has quite a lot of difficulties maintaining his foothold He said something very interesting that Iraq is not Saddam Hussein and that Iran wants to help Iraq but not help a certain individual I thought it unusual The President That is very interesting -- a very interesting statement Helmut I' adn't heard it before ¢ Chancellor Kohl As soon as I have anything new I will get in touch with you Another point I had a long discussion with Francois Mitterrand on Friday concerning the GATT Bearing in mind our many conversations I tried to press on him the importance of the issue I am not making promises but only reporting my impressions from the conversation He did agree that the GATT round must be successful He also agreed that GATT must address not just agricultural policy but all other areas as well and agreed that both sides must show a readiness to compromise I told him that for the EC's part our aim must be to assure that Congress will renew or prolong fast track authority for the President I told him that there are three important points for the EC first market access second SECR B'f --3 BECRE'f internal supports and third export subsidies That is the most difficult and delicate point from the French point of view I told him we have to get to work George I have a bit of advice I think it would be very helpful in spite of the great burdens you have to telephone Jacques Delors Or I can tell him to call you so that a conversational link is established Delors knows how important this is I think he is ready to move but he is getting a lot of flak Perhaps it would be helpful from a psychological point of view if I told him to call you The President I would b delighted to talk with him I would like to wait until I get home so I can be updated by my negotiators and the Secretary of State but I could talk to him from tomorrow afternoon on if you think it would be helpful 7'1 Chancellor Kohl It wouldn't be necessary for the next few hours If you agree I might call him in the next few days and tell him to call you in the second half of the week 7 The President Chancellor Kohl Very good Excellent U Is there any news from the Gulf U The President Nothing new The operation is going well I just talked to Cheney We are damaging his armor very greatly Helmut I am convinced that if there is a ground war -- one it will not be long and two allied casualties will be far less than what we hear from the experts on TV U Chancellor Kohl I certainly hope so U The President Can I ask a question about Velayati Is he a good man I have heard positive things about him Chancellor Kohl He is a man of quality and a real Iranian I remember when I studied I had fellow students from Iran That is why I venture such an opinion Second from a religious viewpoint his convictions are very strong That is something to bear in mind It was quite interesting when I said that it was a disgrace to see what w s happening at the cradle of the three large religions of mankind He was very glad to take up the subject He also knows a lot about the West He studied medicine in the U S I believe I also have the impression from something which Mikhail Gorbachev told me that he has the ear of his President Another thing which I can't prove my impression from the conversation is that once everything moves once the dust settles they are interested in improved relations with the U S -- not right away because there are still hostilities but I do think there is a real possibility He was addressing the future of the region and who would play a role there He said all relevant countries have to play a role including the U S The President SECRE'I' I think he is right Given the pressures within 4· SEGRE Iran this is not the time to restore full relations but we keep hearing they want better relations Yet here they are after an eight-year war with Iraq I am very interested in what he said about the Iraqi people and not Saddam Hussein My view is that if he got out we would all have a better time of it Chancellor Kohl But unfortunately he is still there The President Maybe not forever It has happened before Perhaps someday he will go Chancellor Kohl Unfortu ately it may take some time we Germans have experience with that You know The President Look at Romania how people were dancing in the street after Ceausescu went Thank you very much for the call for keeping me informed ¢' Chancellor Kohl Please give my kindest greetings to Barbara U The President almost well She is right here and sends her love U Chancellor Kohl The President All the best Good-bye Good-bye U -- End of Conversation CRE'f' ·-- i ' • • ·• J U Her leg is