UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 07 2412015 TELCON THE Secretary Gen Scowcroft 4 3 76 1250 p m RELEASE IN FULL K missed first part You know it is bad enough that you think that 1 was as irrational as the President only more disciplined S Oh god Larry called me and told m-e that K It says that 1 asked her once who the most impressive man on the staff was and when she said Win Lord I was terribly relieved S Who the hell do you suppose that comes from K That's what I wanted to ask you Scowcroft S Oh god damn you K I said to Case yesterday when there is smoke there is fire And he said that Dean Acheson said when there is smoke there is sometimes a smoke machine S Well I hope you know better K Come on S Oh boy Hey that PFIAB meeting yesterday was an interesting thing K couldn't make out name wants to lead a great crusade against the Soviets I could see I was headed for trouble S WeH alter you ieft he spoke out strongly on your behalf about 5 minutes more We only talked K The best man in that group was Williams S He is going to be very useful I think K He should have been CIA director is tough 1 1 like him He is a liberal but he UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 07 2412015 1 -2- S We didn't talk all that much but 1 was quite impressed But Chern ' We are going to have to steer that bunch is a real activist K Well I just want you to know that I tookpleasure in your association S I am going to have to read Chis thing in self-defense K Kay Graham told me this morning they have never had so much unfavorable mail S I think maybe it might turra this thing around K I think it is helping Nixon S Tiat is what I mean K I am sympathetic as a personality S I don't think anybody's sympathetic K Somebody is going to write an intelligent piece about that once S This book had it been done by somebody thoughtful could have recorded a great national and human tragedy It is ashame that instead of doing that it is just filth 1 am really pleased that it is being seen for what it is by °more people than I thought K Have you seen that Russel Baker article S Yes yes it is really good I thiñk it is good Voronstov just came in with an oral note on the Soviet Mission thing K What is it S We are having it typed up now It is essentially negative That all of our publicity has made it impossible to do any'thing And if we are to take rataliat ory measures it would further worsen the situation K Well now we have got to take retaliatory measures S I don't think we have any choice 1 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 07 2412015 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015 -3S I talked to Dave Elliot about all of that He says if we jam them it won't have any effect on televisions in that area He says he can't be sure until it is tried but theoretically it shouldn't IC 1 would go ahead and do it then S It is going to take them about two months K I would start it and then see if we get any complaints S I don't know how we will respond to the Soviets but we have got to start action K I would not respond at all We will say we feel free to take action as we feel appropriate S I think we have got to go ahead now K No question S And if jackson asks we can say we have tried and now we are taking K We are taking appropriate counter measures which we don't care to discuss But I hope you realize that we have done this to ourselves S Vorons tov said what really upset them was thepublicity on it He said it really infuriated them I said we couldn't control that but if you people had of responded in December that wouldn't have happened I said you waited so long that it got out of hand K What did he say S He said that both sides are at fault It is unfortunate K I think we could have avoided this thinZZ in Moscow have done it --j We just shouldn't S In retrospect that is probably true but I am not sure the people would not have leaked it anyway It is just such an emotional thing K Yeah I think we should just jam them S I think we better 1 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No 018091577 Date 0712412015 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015 _4S Apparently it will take 2 months to get everything ready But apparently jamming some of the other places is very difficult -- Rke that Riverdale thing K Why S Because there isn't any place near it K Why not pulla track up S NSC is philosophically against jamming They are moving very slow on this K Tell them to go screw themselves S They just aren't moving with any enthusiasm K You tell them to approach it with enthusiasm that they can't do it Don't give me-that crap S They have not really focused on it K Order it immediately I have told Don to move the god damn carrier I think that Lebanon thing we can hold it now S I think it is coming out very well I think though that if the ceasefire doesn't hold the Syrians better move in right away K Yes but we will have three weeks and we will be in a much better position What do you think of theee Presidential attacks on Reagan S I think he had to do it once I don't know if he ought to do it any more Reagan's last one was so personal -- and on national television that he really had to do something K But Reagan says he heard other people say he heard me say this Zumwaldt claims it happened in a pri vate conversation with me Have you ever heard me say anything remotely resemble tlis 1 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015 i -SS No no way The state of our national morality is such that I don't put anything past us You may have said something about the will of the US but never about negotiating the best second place we could K TYa t is not my policy S Of course it isn't K Okay I have got to run S Okay K Bye 1 UNCLASSIFIED U S Department of State Case No F-2001-02979 Doc No C18091577 Date 0712412015