3703 aQQHFHH m'fIltt THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT Memorandum of Conversation with Yegor Gaydar First Deputy Prime Minister of Russia PARTICIPANTS The President The Vice President James A Baker III Secretary of State Nicholas Brady Secretary of the Treasury Brent Scowcroft Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Robert S Strauss U S Ambassador to Russia Ed A Hewett Senior Director for Russian and Eurasian Affairs NSC Staff Notetaker Yegor Gaydar First Deputy Prime Minister Vladimir P Lukin Ambassador of Russia to the U S Pyotr Aven Minister of foreign Economic Relations Andrei I Kolosovskiy Deputy Chief of the Konstant P iary Representative of the Government on Interaction with International Financial Organizations April 28 1992 2 36 - 2 55pm Oval Office DATE TIME AND PLACE The President What do I need to know We keep up through the Ambassador Strauss and other ways U I hope this package FREEDOM Support Act goes through I don't think there are a lot of obstacles We'll keep pushing for it here How do you feel about your reforms Mr Gaydar We lost about one and one-half months with the political situation before and during the Congress But that was probably inevitable The political situation now better Public support is galvanized The President Mr Gaydar Is that right Yes The polls are strong % CONI ' Hi Al JT I PZb Declassify on U OADR Support is growing DECLASSIFIED PER E O 13526 c loo tf' -Mt l h' IIO QNfIDDH'f'IAL 2 The President At the beginning we weren't sure how it would all work out It was a contentious beginning Then you turned the tide i Ambassador Lukin I told Yeltsin that the Congress was going well because it was turned from harmful to useless I The President Yes it came along to a good outcome ¢ Mr Gaydar Yes it was a good ending It became quite clear that the conservatives had no program and no ideas So when they had to take a position -- either strongly oppose Yeltsin or support him -- they thought it better to support him Amb Strauss Mr President this was a Congress whose members were elected in March 1990 The President Were there lots of military in there Ambassador Lukin withdraw The President The----E I esjdent No ¢ Are they Ambassador Lukin vt Shaposhnikov called on the military to Did they Ambassador Lukin Yes pdIIlarily_hLgh-rankin _ '-#- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ U The President What is the situation with the coup-plotters Is their case still being investigated When will it go on trial Mr Gaydar It is a slow process Our laws almost excessively protect civil liberties when they are fully used For example can take a year for the defendants to study the case yet the case can't go to the judge until they've studied it It probably won't go to the judge until next July t The President Our system is the same bring someone to trial How is Yeltsin's health It can take years to How has all this affected him I Mr Gaydar He feels well -- plays tennis Now he is on a new political trip to the north The Congress improved his position with the population There is a joke now that if the Congress had lasted many more days a Yeltsin personality cult would have started The President We want his visit here to be a big success and we want it to be seen as a success around the world €OHPIDmF£IfiL CQ lFIElEWfI1rL 3 I know there is a litt concern about Gorbachev's visit Yeltsin is the head of government and will be treated accordingly Gorbachev will be treated with respect There is a parallel to how we deal with Mrs Thatcher and John Major I am determined to work closely with Major I stayed with him But I had a quiet meeting with Mrs Thatcher We will treat both with respect but not equally Yeltsin is the man We will give him full honors I wanted to get this out there I know there is some sensitivity on this We can handle it ¢ Mr Gaydar Thank you I will explain the situation and the position to the President bmbassador that after the reform Try to get Strauss Mr President a new poll a few days showed a five- to ten-fold increase in prices people support program of Yeltsin designed by Gaydar by 70 percent those ratings here The President 70 percent Ambassador Strauss The President U 70 percent U How is the supply situation now Mr Gaydar Much better It was terrible in December People had to wait two to three hours for a bottle of milk Now it is better although far from perfect By Soviet standards it is quite good for foodstuffs durables it is improving although not as rapidly There is no hunger in the country The President severe winter Good For 1 We were concerned by the possibility of a Mr Gaydar We have been happy with the weather One of the crucial factors was grain imports Here thanks to your support the situation was quit good C The President How about distribution Is food getting into the town from the countryside Is there progress there Mr Gaydar We're trying The price liberalization created new possibilities We're trying to privatize retail trade but cannot do it in a few months The President What about the privatization of the agricultural economy Are you moving there Mr Gaydar We're moving Over the last four months 90 000 private farms have been created State farms are behaving differently now that they have to worry about customers cmlt' I 9g 1 T f 4 fiL There will be no miracles in the countryside as there were in China All of the socially active and most talented people tended to leave the countryside for the city The President Right U Mr Gaydar I hope now in the industrial crisis that a wave of immigration will move from the cities to the countryside The President Another question Ed Hewett is just back from Ukraine Is Yeltsin spending a lot of time on relations with the states of the former Soviet Union I'm particularly interested in Ukraine There are a lot of Ukrainian-Americans We must handle them properly with great respect There is the nuclear question f The last time I talked to Kravchuk before Ed went Kravchuk was optimistic for a speedy resolution in Ukraine's relationship with Russia Is he right or will it take a long time Mr Gaydar It will take a long time The President spends a lot of time on republic problems In some areas the e is rapid progress in relations with Byelorus and Kazakhstan for example There are problems with Ukraine Of course we are not afraid of a Yugoslav-type case in Russian-Ukrainian relations We'll need tlme to Llno new ways to estaD LSn L OSe re atlh·o nncs- ---hQt T ------------------There is a very serious problem in Ukraine itself for example in the tensions between West Ukraine and Kiev There are also problems with Russian-language Ukraine The economic situation is uneasy and worse than ours They're not moving fast enough on reforms I hope they will speed up their reform program Ambassador Lukin It is interesting Sometimes people overestimate the nationality problem in Russia and underestimate it in Ukraine Russia is 83 percent Russian Ukraine is 73 percent Ukrainian ¢ The President 73 percent Ambassador Lukin Mr Gaydar Who are the rest Mostly Russian Mostly in Crimea The President If we can help we'd like to better left to the countries involved Of course this is Ambassador Lukin It will be hard to do anything with Crimea On May 5 the Crimean Supreme Soviet will meet to consider whether or not to have a referendum They will almost certainly decide in favor of referendum on whether to be independent or stay in Ukraine It would be best to put this aside but it looks like a referendum will take place in August G9HPIBrlH fHd 5 The President How will the ballot read Is the choice to be independent stay in Ukraine or go to Russia Ambassador Lukin There is no Russia option Either stay in Ukraine or join the Commonwealth as an independent state vt The President Well we wish you well others but I wanted to say hello 91 I know you've talked to Please give my warm regards to President Yeltsin U Mr Gaydar Thank you Mr President I want to express my strongest gratitude to you for your assistance The President Keep pushing We'll work to get what we want out of Congress And we'll push the i 's to come through along with the G-7 We're on your side -- End of Conversation