SECRET NODIS DEPARTMENT OF STATE Memorandum of Conversation OOTE June 9 1975 SUBJECT Cuba Policy Tactics Before and After San Jose PARTICIPANTS B Q' o £u u The Secretary Mr Eagleburger Deputy Under Secretary M Mr Rogers Assistant Secretary ARA Mr Lord Assistant Secretary S P Mr Gleysteen ARA CCA - notetaker 00 l - i 0 0 - ---------------------------------------- IV - The Secretary What C Cl --Mr Rogers C Decisions are needed on two levels First whether we probe the Cubans again before San Jose If'we don't know what's on the Cubans' minds 1- n we'll get nickeled and dimed by the Canadians Congress will get ahead of us on Cuba policy r g v z The Secretary oo __ Mr Rogers So what Cuba is not a popular issue Also for resolution is whether we ·decide to seek a prior agreement on compensation or whether we are to agree on terms to negotiate compensation and establish diplomatic relations leaving settlement on compensation until later o Absolutely not This is out of the question · tis not my style of work 'l'his was the ay it was done with China A ·telationship was established before compensation was agreed upon There could be a machinery for a dialogue with Cuba which was less than a full relationship 1-Jr ' ARA CCA CGleysteen yt ' A r -n• on Or 1 11ni 0 f u ar J 0 f rtr FORM DS· l25-4 2 • 65 'q I 1 g Froc cl_3 ro1v1 v 0 d · • • - •• - - - t1 n 5f rt J •G J r _ 1 _ •Jcl · 3EC c r T KODIS GT S ' • '·- · t _ ' l J•ij'd I ji AL SC CUiUTY AF Cl 'E 1·75s Kassochusctcs Ave tr ' Jushingto · oc 200 6 SECRET NODIS - 2 - The Secretary I would like to explore with the companies whether they can not delay another six weeks Mr Rogers We'll explore if the Babcock and Wilcox license can be held up we have told the companies to hold their applications The Secretary Is this straight Mr Rogers Yes i t is The Secretary Yes it is straigh if we haven't already told the Canadian that we'll lift the sanctions after San Jose Mr Rogers I can't speak for EUR but will check with Art · Hartman I ·'m sure not 'T- The Secretary I thought you people put EUR up to that memorandum • Mr Rogers We had nothing to do with sending i t up I just concurred To get back to the probe with the Cubans we have few cards to play now after San Jose we'll have even fewer Mr Lord Yes The Cubans know what will happen iri San Jose Mr Eagleburger The Cubans have never replied to the message _to a diplomat in New York The Secretary k i'l'h - -Chinese played with exchanging messages 4 - - ·· • _ · - - ··fo '' · - ' - - · r a y ea r • ·· MJ _ - - ' Mr Eagl - er 't - I J ·• ·-There have be n four messages to the Cubans and 'l ' ' - _'· ·no· -reply - - - · ' - - - The Secretary I don't see what we can gain tactically by a probe Mr Rogers The cards in our hands are declining in number The Secretary What can we give them anyway lifting of third country sanctions SECRE NODIS Free the HATIO iAL s CUiUTY AP CHIV 17S5 Kassochusetts Ave· IN Weshingto1 0C 20036 SECRET NODIS - The Secretary Mr Rogers The Secretary · rt a-- 3 - o- he -' ' br sis Something less than having an Ambassador in Havana It was 1 1 2 years of contact with China before we reached agreement to exchange missions Cuba is not important I will not cater to the propensity of the Democrats to make unilateral concessions Cuba can do nothing for us except to embarrass us ·in Latin America--and we thought we had successfully taken care of this I would prefer not to lift the third coun sanctions until San Jose What about the Hartman memo I was told by MacEachen there would be six more weeks before something builds up again But now I am told to do something immediately Mr Rogers You have told the Canadians i t is better to wait until August before pressing us again The Secretary My answer was negative because MacEachen does not expect any pressure as suggested in the memos MacEachen apparently misunderstood thinking third country sanctions might be lifted in June instead of _August Ambassador Porter phoned today and _ · - _ _ • ot this confirmed · - · · ·· ' ' '' - The Secr ·aey _ - The Canadians want to show that they can make the Secr7tary back-up Have we encouraged them - -r - · to · do this Is there any reason why another foreign firm should get the contract Mr Rogers i ' f - · Mr Rogers Sure There are other manufacturers of boilers in Germany and Japan The main issue is the price Canada could lose the contract froc the HATIOliAL Si CUi ITY ARCHIVE 1755 Massachusetts Ave N I Jashingtoi I OC 20036 SECRET NODIS - 4 - Mr Rogers We 0uld ndicaL determining this The Secretary What would you say if the Cubans said screw you Suppose they don't answer I don't see how we can make any threats about not supporting the lifting of sanctions at San Jose Mr Rogers Well there are the third-country sanctions-proposals for a basketball team to Cuba etc The Secretary I thought i t was baseball Hr Rogers McGovern was dickering for a college level basketball team·to Cuba this summer and a baseball team in the autwnn Incidentally I have to reply to Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kuhn on the latter proposal Also outstanding is a request for our shipping food and medicines by a religious group This comes to $10 million worth to Cuba The Secretary I suppose you already granted it Hr Rogers No not yet The point is that our position is being continually chiselled away by Congress The Secretary Don't let them Mr Rogers A Kennedy bill to abolish all the sanctions could Wd La e d0h iscretion in This should be easy pass The Secretary That would be a great one to veto Mr Eagleburger Or you could hold your nose and let i t go thr ugh The Sec ary ' · tt ' · •-r - -'' · find i t intriguing that Kennedy would let his · name be attached to soft on communism Let us find out Who is in favor of it What do we lose by it Is this statesmanship fro -the tiATIOliAL St CViUTY ARCHl ' c 175 i 1-fassochusetts Ave N ' 1Jushingto1 DC 20036 SECRET NODIS - 5 - Mr Rogers oe-e 50m1 p• liticn l redit for playing the humanitarian card in Congress there is an issue there The Secretary I favored a probe with Cuba last year but there was no answer what new now can be said Then coulcl Mr Eagleburger Before San Jose just tell them you're going to do it The Secretary Mr What happens if the Cubans announce that we have probed before San Jose Eagleburger We'd be better off telling them what we are going to do - as we diG with the Chinese · The Secretary Castro told Manckiewicz that the mere fact that Cuba had survived was a victory for them and a defeat for us They treat us with contempt • But since all these things are going to happen we might as well start a dialogue Just before San Jose do it in 4 weeks better not bargain when you are going to vote to leave the countries free on the sanctions if you are going to do it anyway Mr Rogers The Secretary There are 20-25 unacted-upon subsidiary licenses Do a message to Castro but get it up to me before it leaks as it usually does before I get it Mr Rog · · · There are no leaks on CUba from ARA in the last · ·§ J - - · '· six months We have a good record • ···•· The Secfet'ary · Yes that's· true It is better to deal straight with Castro Behave chivalrously do it like a big guy not like a shyster Let him know We are moving in a new direction we'd like to synchronize SEC 'tET 1'•0 IS Froc the NATIONAL St' CViUTY AP CHIVE 1755 Hassochusects Ave If ' lh1shingto1 OC 20036 SECRET NODIS - 6 - r- ew Yuik Ci 1 y under 1 he U -J m-i ntle would t-e thA placP steps will be unilateral reciprocity is necessary we shall stop until we get some reciprocity This should handle the McGovern problem When the Democrats scream about our Cuban policy we can say we've already done points 1 2 and 3 This will keep the Cubans off-guard and we can warn the legislative branch of negotiations with Cuba Mr Rogers Remember what I told you when McGovern came back from Havana McGovern quoted Castro as saying he was · doing the following favors allowing Luis Tiant's parents to visit the 0$ for Senator Brooke and releasing the $2 million of Southern airways hijack money for Senator Sparkman Then McGovern said he would like some political prisoners released for himself Castro replied if I do this what will I give to Kennedy when he comes here That's a true story The Secr tary It better be because when you told it to me the last time I told i t to Kennedy Kennedy responded - that he is sure there will be one more hanging by his thumbs with a sign For Kennedy• on his chest Mr Rogers The release of Lunt is all but set The Secretary I am seeing Jackie on Saturday night and it would be nice to say something to her about this if I _ can say 24 hours before Lunt's release - To Rogers You should draft a message for the Cubans before San Jose When am I going to Latin America Mr Eagleburger When your schedule allows it Froc the NATIONAL S Cl iUTY ARCHIVE 1755 Massachusetts ·Ave IN Jash1ngto1 '- DC 20036 SECRET NODIS - The Secretary Mr Rogers The Secretary 7 - r al y co have to de hi3 this year asc week ln Aug sl mig t d Lime That's my thinking if not then then in October Can't go in September because of the UNGA There are also Conference and latter will be Chou En-lai is the European Security the trip to China The an excruciating bore if not on hand Have that message to the Cubans before San Jose--in three weeks • s · • SECRET NOD IS ' ' · · Free the NATIONAL SECUiHTY AP CHIVE 1755 M assochusects Ave N ' Wl shingtor DC 20036