SEGRE I SEGREF aECRE'fSECnB¥ 0513 0513 DECLASSIFIED DECLASSIFIED PER 13526 PER E O E 0 13526 1 0ll# • 0 1- t io u-o n-r MEMORANDUM MEMORANDUM OF OF CONVERSATION CONVERSATION o ' 10 1 -o s o x xo s 1 S 1 SUBJECT SUBJECT One-on-One One-on-One Yeltsin Yeltsin of of PARTICIPANTS PARTICIPANTS The The President President Dimitry Dimitry Zarechnak Zarechnak Interpreter Interpreter and and notetaker notetaker Meeting Meeting with with President President Boris Boris Russia U Russia U Boris Yeltsin President President of of Russian Russian Boris Yeltsin Federation Federation Intrepreter Intrepreter DATE TIME DATE TIME AND AND PLACE PLACE January 13 January 13 1994 1994 9 00 9 00 -- 9 45am 9 45am The Kremlin The Kremlin President Bill II welcome welcome you you in in the the most most friendly way President Yeltsin Yeltsin Bill friendly way II am looking forward to this visit I am sure it will produce am looking forward to this visit I am sure it will produce much both of us I'll much for for both of us I'll start start with with the the situation situation in in Russia Russia Of Of course after the elections things here have gotten complicated course after the elections things here have gotten complicated Still between our Still from from last last year's year's confrontation confrontation between our legislative legislative and and executive powers we've moved toward stabilizing the executive powers we've moved toward stabilizing the situation situation on on the basis of e1 the basis of the the new new constitution constitution I1 inaugurated inaugurated the the first first session session of of the the Federation Federation Council Council and and set set forth basic goals of the Federation Council and the Duma forth basic goals of the Federation Council and the Duma The The last last few few days days have have not not seen seen any any scandals scandals But But the the line-ups line-ups before us in the two houses of parliament are different before us in the two houses of parliament are different The The Federation Council is made up of two representatives for each Federation Council is made up of two representatives for each region believe the region We We believe the Federation Federation Council Council will will follow follow the the Presidential line The upper chamber can send back Presidential line The upper chamber can send back legislation legislation passed passed President President Yeltsin Yeltsin the the Duma Duma That That gives gives the the President President additional advantages Also I have veto power additional advantages Also I have veto power so so II can can make make sure laws are passed based on the constitution CJJf sure laws are passed based on the constitution JSrf The percent of The democratic democratic forces forces are are 80 80 percent of the the Federation Federation Council Council That instills a sense of optimism The situation That instills a sense of optimism The situation in in the the Duma Duma is is not so propitious The Democrats failed to pool their efforts not so propitious The Democrats failed to pool their efforts and and were were not not able able to to unify unify themselves themselves in in the the election election campaign campaign They committed lots of technical mistakes and They committed lots of technical mistakes and ended ended up up with with fewer fewer seats seats than than we we expected expected The The democratic democratic parties parties hold hold one one third third of of the the seats seats in in the the Duma Duma If you add the Duma territorial representatives the total If you add the Duma territorial representatives the total strength percent If strength of of the the democrats democrats is is 46 46 to to 47 47 percent If the the Communists Communists join with the Agrarians and others they'll end up with join with the Agrarians and others they'll end up with the the same same amount That means neither side will have a clear majority amount That means neither side will have a clear majority So So we '2f we will will have have factional factional fights fights going going on on all all the the time time ECPET - ECEET Declassify on OADR SEGRE SEGRET SECRE' P SECRET SEGRE EGREl 2 I-still will prevail prevail It I Still believe believe that that gradually gradually common common sense sense will It is is important that over the next two years we develop a constructive important that over the next two years we develop a constructive approach reform Jl1' approach in in the the interest interest of of Russia Russia and and reform We We do do not not share share the the concern concern that that is is felt felt abroad abroad with with regard regard to to Zhirinovskiy He won on the basis Zhirinovskiy He won on the basis of of populist populist slogans slogans and and promises clear and and the the voters voters will will not not promises he he can't can't keep keep This This is is clear fail to grasp it I believe that unlike with the previous fail to grasp it I believe that unlike with the previous Supreme more contact with the the Supreme Soviet Soviet I'll I'll have have to to maintain maintain more contact with factions and leaders as you're also doing Your ambassador factions and leaders as you're also doing Your ambassador advises with the the various various faction advises me me to to have have tea tea and and coffee coffee with faction leaders and strike bargains with them Of course its leaders and strike bargains with them Of course its important important not will raise not to to overemphasize overemphasize one one faction faction That That will raise hackles hackles with with the the other other factions factions II have have been been criticized criticized for for not not swinging swinging my my weight weight behind behind Russia's Russia's Choice Choice but but II did did the the right right thing thing to to let let all 81 all the the parties parties run run on on an an equal equal footing footing Early not on the horizon horizon Under Under Early elections elections for for the the President President are are not on the the new constitution the incumbent finishes his term in June the new constitution the incumbent finishes his term in June 1996 The issue 1996 provided provided II don't don't run run for for reelection reelection The issue of of early early Presidential elections has taken second place 8'f Presidential elections has taken second place 8 Concerning Concerning those those who who backed backed the the October October unrest unrest --- Rutskoy Rutskoy and and Khasbulatov -the procurator's office has presented Khasbulatov -- the procurator's office has presented written written charges charges Have Have you you got got any any questions questions J21 The Thanks for the benefit benefit of of your your thinking thinking It is is The President President Thanks for the It of great interest to me and to everyone in the world I have of great interest to me and to everyone in the world I have three regarding Ambassador Ambassador Pickering's Pickering's three observations observations first first regarding advice about you spending time with the factions was elected advice about you spending time with the factions II was elected with only 43 percent of the popular vote although a with only 43 percent of the popular vote although a large large majority have aa narrow narrow majority majority in majority of of the the states states The The Democrats Democrats have in Congress but are famous for not sticking together Yet Congress but are famous for not sticking together Yet at at the the end have had end of of my my first first year year in in office office II have had more more success success than than any any President since Eisenhower And I had to ask them to do President since Eisenhower And I had to ask them to do hard hard things related to to the the amount amount of of personal personal things The The lesson lesson is is directly directly related time with Congressional leaders Even opponents are glad to be be time with Congressional leaders Even opponents are glad to invited to the President's home and office It's sometimes one invited to the President's home and office It's sometimes one of the job job but but it's worth it of the the most most frustrating frustrating parts parts of of the it's worth it The The more time I put into it the more I get out of it You can't win more time I put into it the more I get out of it You can't win over progress -with your your over everyone everyone but but can can make make big big progress -- including including with opponents I saw on the TV how they screamed opponents I saw on the TV how they screamed They'll They'll insult insult you in the Duma but they'll still be glad to be you in the Duma but they'll still be glad to be invited invited to to see see you you President President Yeltsin Yeltsin No doubt doubt No U U The Many of those who who voted voted for for Zhirinovskiy Zhirinovskiy decided decided The President President Many of those at the last moment It happens when people are frustrated at the last moment It happens when people are frustrated and and confused In 1992 three percent percent of confused They They want want to to send send aa signal signal In 1992 three of the weekend to to vote vote for because the voters voters decided decided in in the the last last weekend for Perot Perot because they wanted to knew they thought thought II would would win win but but wanted to send send aa signal signal They They knew II didn't need their votes to win J21 didn't need their votes to win The The reformers' reformers' campaign campaign showed showed aa recklessness recklessness II have have often often seen seen among our Democrats during a campaign For years Democrats among our Democrats during a campaign For years Democrats gECRE'l -geCRET- QC-P 11C-T or-pr _ j ·--- · • 4 - - 8EGRE1 J --SEC' RE'f 33 -SECRE'T would would lose lose Presidential Presidential elections elections because because they'd they'd talk talk about about government programs to fix problems while the Republicans government programs to fix problems while the Republicans would would talk talk about about values values and and fears fears --- nwe We stand stand up up for for family family the the greatness greatness of of America America --- we're we're against against crime n crime And And they they would would get get votes that Democrats might have won sj votes that Democrats might have won The have won The Republican Republican strategy strategy has has often often worked worked and and they they have won Presidential elections in recent years than Democrats Presidential elections in recent years than Democrats even even though though they they didn't didn't talk talk as as much much about about concrete concrete solutions solutions to to problems VJi problems more more real real You You rose rose to to prominence prominence because because the the people people saw saw you you sta_nding standing up up for for them against things they were against -not because you had them against things they were against -- not because you had aa ten-point ten-point program program II think think it it was was the the image image of of you you standing standing on on aa tank Programs are important but there are people in America tank Programs are important but there are people in America who have have insights tha could be helpful might be be benefit benefit who insights that could be helpful There There might in having the reform bloc talk to our experts so that next time in having the reform bloc talk to our experts so that next time people who are worried about crime don't all vote for people who are worried about crime don't all vote for Zhirinovskiy $5' Zhirinovskiy II leave leave it it to to you you whether whether this this could could help help Yeltsin Yeltsin nods nods This This is is not not to to change change positions positions but but perhaps perhaps to to change change how how reformers present themselves You might send Gaydar or anyone reformers present themselves You might send Gaydar or anyone else you choose to the U S to talk to our experts I'll else you choose to the U S to talk to our experts I'll arrange arrange aa quiet meeting if you think think it will help quiet meeting if you it will help OK OK r5 Yeltsin Yeltsin nods nods enthusiastically enthusiastically If If not not I'll I'll drop drop it it President President Yeltsin Yeltsin U U Good Good Let's Let's do do it it U U The just returned The President President II just returned from from NATO NATO where where everyone everyone discussed the Russian elections Many of the discussed the Russian elections Many of the leaders leaders there there said said don't overreact to Zhirinovskiy others were afraid that the don't overreact to Zhirinovskiy others were afraid that the forces have forces Zhirinovskiy Zhirinovskiy represents represents are are stronger stronger than than you you have suggested I believe it would be time well spent to suggested I believe it would be time well spent to have have someone someone -Kozyrev -give your view of these elections It -- Kozyrev -- give your view of these elections It will will help help settle things settle things down down deal deal with with the the unease unease convince convince people people of of your your perception E perception and and that that you you have have aa strategy strategy Finally Finally let let me me say say something something about about economic economic issues issues There There is is still an enormous amount of respect for you among the still an enormous amount of respect for you among the leaders leaders with nyeltsin is with whom whom II deal deal but but there there is is an an underlying underlying theme theme Yeltsin is aa great man but he is fighting a losing the battle against great man but he is fighting a losing the battle against the the forces be helpful forces of of history history It It would would be helpful for for them them to to see see that that you you don't believe that -I don't believe it people don't believe that -- I don't believe it We We don't don't want want people to to have have aa stereotype stereotype of of Russia Russia that that is is frozen frozen in in the the past past We We want them to look to the future So maybe you should want them to look to the future So maybe you should invite invite some some of J2f of them them to to Russia Russia in in the the next next few few months months j2 President that frank Next lets President Yeltsin Yeltsin Thanks Thanks for for that frank discussion discussion Next lets talk about the reforms We believe·that part of the population talk about the reforms We believe that part of the population voted voted for for Zhirinovskiy Zhirinovskiy because because they they were were dissatisfied dissatisfied with with the the social policy We have been concentrating on fighting social policy We have been concentrating on fighting against against SECRE' P ECRB¥ o a -a ' - '9 '-_ I -SECftE'f -SECRET- SEGRE EGPEF O inflation was the has been been in inflation In In December December it it was the lowest lowest it it has in aa long long time This year we we intend the economy time This year intend to to stabilize stabilize the economy further further and and drive to five percent At the same we will drive inflation inflation down down to five percent At the same time time we will concentrate on the 12 percent of the population who are unhappy concentrate on the 12 percent of the population who are unhappy and voted for taking back back and who who voted for Zhirinovskiy Zhirinovskiy They They didn't didn't vote vote for for taking Alaska Ukraine and Crimea or for the fascism he embodies but Alaska Ukraine and Crimea or for the fascism he embodies but rather because they unhappy 8' rather because they are are unhappy Our to broaden broaden structural Our goal goal is is to structural economic economic reform reform Everyone Everyone feels the need to intensify movement down the road of reform and feels the need to intensify movement down the road of reform and pick up the pace of reform Out of an adult population pick up the pace of reform Out of an adult population of of 115 115 million people 50 million now now have have some private million people 50 million some form form of of private property This is something we haven't seen in a time property This is something we haven't seen in a long long time We've got to intensify privatization Chubais was elected We've got to intensify privatization Chubais was elected to to the the Duma but he'll remain head of privatization because of his high Duma but he'll remain head of privatization because of his high professional skills 81 professional skills We won't be distracted the same kind of We won't be distracted President President Yeltsin Yeltsin the same kind of confrontation between the two branches that we had the past past confrontation between the two branches that we had in in the so we can concentrate more on reform M so we can concentrate more on reform In my upcoming upcoming February message to joint session In my February message to aa joint session of of Parliament I'll say that reform is still the main task The Parliament I'll say that reform is still the main task The focus now should be on breakthroughs in investment policy focus now should be on breakthroughs in investment policy Although investment the U S not sufficient We Although investment from from the U S is is still still not sufficient We understand the difficulties you have We are not asking for understand the difficulties you have We are not asking for aid aid for needs We want aid to for our our social social needs We don't don't want aid since since that that can can lead lead to an anti-Western flareup an anti-Western flareup Incidentally recovery Incidentally we we are are seeing seeing signs signs of of economic economic recovery Conversion is going well I recently had a conference with Conversion is going well I recently had a conference with leaders of the defense industries We agreed that 1994 be leaders of the defense industries We agreed that 1994 will will be the year of emphasis on civilian output of high quality C S- the year of emphasis on civilian output of high quality In we talked need for humanitarian In Vancouver Vancouver we talked about about the the need for humanitarian assistance and investment assistance That's not what what we we need need assistance and investment assistance That's not now How we ask U S aid unemployment in now How can can we ask for for U S aid to to help help with with unemployment in Russia when you have unemployment in the U S too now help help Russia when you have unemployment in the U S too But But now is needed for Also in is needed for investment investment through through companies companies and and firms firms Also in the rescheduling of foreign debts and structural economic the rescheduling of foreign debts and structural economic reform We We also need technical the destruction reform also need technical assistance assistance in in the destruction of of nuclear weapons Of the $800 million in SSD I'm wondering nuclear weapons Of the $800 million in SSD I'm wondering about possibility of percent being being directed to about the the possibility of ten ten percent directed channeled channeled to our research institutes that work on storage sites for the our research institutes that work on storage sites for the dismantled Nunn was was here here recently recently and dismantled weapons weapons Senator Senator Nunn and he he said said this could be done this could be done Frankly the work work of the G-7 plus one Frankly the of the G-7 in in Tokyo Tokyo and and the the G-7 G-7 plus one has has been very slow The second tranche of the STF from the has been very slow The second tranche of the STF from the IMF IMF has been delayed since August 1993 That concerns us I read your been delayed since August 1993 That concerns us I read your speech was aa good percent speech in in Brussels Brussels It It was good speech speech II agree agree 100 100 percent But there is reason for doubt among the European leaders we But there is reason for doubt among the European leaders that that we are really on reform road When you you have have ups ups and are really on the the reform road When and downs downs that's part of the normal problem of an y country in that's part of the normal problem of any country in transition transition csr SEGRET 6EGRET- --------- ' -■ K ·•- ' · ' b 18 l • i - --7 -t--------- 1 SEGRET -SECRE'f -SBGRBT So trade on the books books So far far there there are are still still barriers barriers to to biiateral bilateral trade on the in the U S though after Vancouver you accomplished a lot in the U S though after Vancouver you accomplished a lot and and II the books books and am am grateful grateful for for that that Jackson-Vanik Jackson-Vanik is is still still on on the that has stymied development of our trade relations 21 and that has stymied development of our trade relations The reaffirmation of of the the The President President First First II appreciate appreciate your your reaffirmation overall direction of reform policy You have a good team and overall direction of reform policy You have a good team and aa good with you you about the social good policy policy Second Second you you know know II agree agree with about the social impact The rest rest of the world world impact and and difficulty difficulty of of transition transition The of the should The thing thing is not to to stop should be be supportive supportive and and be be sensitive sensitive The is not stop or slow down reforms but to be more sensitive to the difficulty or slow down reforms but to be more sensitive to the difficulty Y81 We've package and and We've committed committed all all of of the the Vancouver Vancouver assistance assistance package distributed most of it So the things that have been in distributed most of it So the things that have been in our our personal On the the second package personal control control we we have have moved moved quickly quickly On second package much committed to to much is is tied tied to to the the G-7 G-7 II too too am am frustrated frustrated and and committed moving it along faster The international financial moving it along faster The international financial organizations ready to to move move more more quickly organizations understand understand too too and and are are ready quickly and flexibly if you are still committed to reform M and flexibly if you are still committed to reform Regarding trade and investment we we have have Regarding the the legal legal restrictions restrictions on on trade and investment done a lot but still have two big issues On Jackson-Vanik done a lot but still have two big issues On Jackson-Vanik II too history and a whole whole too am am frustrated frustrated We We have have aa whole whole history and a constituency invested in it Now that they see we're both constituency invested in it Now that they see we're both committed have strong committed they they are are holding holding us us to to the the details details II have strong hopes we can get this done this year hopes we can get this done this year President President Yeltsin Yeltsin Good Good U U The of how how to to become become partners partners The President President Second Second is is the the question question of in the new COCOM regime We are on the verge of getting that in the new COCOM regime We are on the verge of getting that done The one outstanding issue is the need for a clear done The one outstanding issue is the need for a clear sense sense from you and your government on arms sales to Iran from you and your government on arms sales to Iran President President Yeltsin Yeltsin Iraq U Iraq Puzzled to his his notetaker notetaker Iran Iran not not Puzzled turns turns to U The The President President Yes Iran Iran Yes President President Yeltsin Yeltsin Iran Iran U U U 0 The issues of diplomacy that that The President President There There are are also also three three issues of diplomacy affect my ability to influence the international community affect my ability to influence the international community First thing you you two two have have done First Ukraine Ukraine It It is is aa very very great great thing done It It will him Kravchuk politically will help help aa lot lot But But we we have have to to help help him Kravchuk politically at get overruled on this this ft-81' at home home with with the the Rada Rada so so he he doesn't doesn't get overruled on ifSf Second There were were a a lot lot of of Second NATO NATO and and Partnership Partnership for for Peace Peace There people in the U S and some in Europe who felt I should have people in the U S and some in Europe who felt I should have given And some who given early early membership membership for for the the Visegrad Visegrad countries countries And some who said it's a mess -do nothing But I believe your leadership said it's a mess --do nothing But I believe your leadership gives has never never been been done done since gives us us aa chance chance to to do do something something that that has since the rise of the nation state itself--and that is have Europe the rise of the nation state itself -- and that is have aa Europe that Walesa put put it this that is is truly truly integrated integrated and and not not divided divided Walesa it this -SECREI -SECRET SEGR -SECRE'P 6 ■ GBCRBTway way Every Every nI know know you you like Yeltsin but but history history is is not not on on his his side side I like Yeltsin second Russian is like Zhirinovskiy n J1 second Russian is like Zhirinovskiy Yeltsin Yeltsin laughs laughs ruefully ruefully Others P4P is Others did did not not agree agree --- they they are are for for P4P P4P Support Support for for P4P is rooted in large measure in their belief that you stand the rooted in large measure in their belief that you stand for for the best would help help if you best future future for for Russia Russia and and for for Europe Europe So So it it would if you would 31 would say say something something public public on on that that President President Yeltsin Yeltsin II We will support We will support you you support support you you in in that that U U It's a good good proposal proposal It's a The between Russia Russia and The President President The The third third issue issue is is relations relations between and the other states especially the Baltics On Georgia people the other states especially the Baltics On Georgia people have to you you for what you you did have mixed mixed feelings feelings They They are are grateful grateful to for what did to help Shevardnadze but worry that before that some elements to help Shevardnadze but worry that before that some elements of of the the Baltics Baltics there there the army army supported supported the the Abkhaz Abkhaz separatists separatists On On the is concern about what is support support for for withdrawal withdrawal from from Latvia Latvia but but concern about what will happen next I know there's concern about Estonia and will happen next I know there's concern about Estonia and treatment treatment of of the the Russians Russians there there On wants five years to to On Latvia Latvia the the issue issue is is Skrunda Skrunda Russia Russia wants five years stay and two years to withdraw Latvia wants Russia to stay stay and two years to withdraw Latvia wants Russia to stay only only three Let's agree to split the three years years with with one one year year to to withdraw withdraw Let's agree to split the difference at 4 years and 18 months On Latvia the issue is difference at 4 years and 18 months On Latvia the issue is Skrunda the Latvian Latvian issue Skrunda If If an an announcement announcement could could be be made made on on the issue it would cut the legs out from under grousing in Europe the it would cut the legs out from under grousing in Europe over over the future of Russia's relations with the other states It would future of Russia's relations with the other states It would reinforce the future reinforce what what the the world world wants wants to to believe believe about about the future of of Russian foreign policy It would go a long way toward wiping out Russian foreign policy It would go a long way toward wiping out that responsibility for that issue issue for for awhile awhile II would would take take personal personal responsibility for going have a a big big positive positive going to to the the Latvians Latvians II believe believe it it would would have impact on everything we're trying to do '81 impact on everything we're trying to do President President Yeltsin Yeltsin U We'll back to to you you We'll discuss discuss it it and and I'll I'll get get back U --- End End of of Conversation Conversation --- SECRET r- - · · ·- o· ' a _ Ill ·--- -- · -