' · - _ _ ---- -- ·- ------ - - -- --- --·--·--- -- _____ _ - -iz- 0 73409 _ • • • F - - ' · -- - this docll le consi ts of_ t -s -pages Copy No f--o ✓ -L-Scries __ Lf______ _ DELETED VERSIOf ONLY MINUTES - s • • •- - ·• Thirty-nint Meeting ot the General Advisory C_ommittee to_the U S Atomic Energy Comnission March i pril l and 2 1954 Was gton D C • •• 1' RG 326 US ATO iIC ENERGY eA l C u c n _•_ _ __ -------- -v 'O CoHecHcn _ ___ $ E _C R - ' E T AR T_____ - ' 'l -- - - -- - ·- 1 --- I 2- f r -' · ' • i IlIDEX Minutes Thirty-ninth Meeting GAC Page Meeting with the Commissione s 'and General Manager BNL Entirely Unclassified •• ·• • • • • • • • • • ••• 5 32 • • • 2 5 11 21 The Remote Defensive Air Battle• • • • • • • • • • • • • 1 Policy on Alien's · 5 24 32 • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Research Ma tters • • •• • • • • • • • • - - • •· • • • Budget • • • • • • • • • • •• • - • • • • • GAC Statement on Research Budget •• • - • • • • 7 7 34- 25 ONR-AEC Joint Program • • • • • • • • • ·• • • - - • • • 8 26 34 GAC Recommendations on Research Lab Policy• •• • • • • ·9 28 Accelerators ANL-University Relations • • • • • • • • • Executive Order on Research • •• • • • • • • • • • • Foreign Travel - • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Controlled Thermonuclear Reactions ••• • • • • • • • • Research Reactors • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Assistant General Manager for Research and Development • • • • • • • • • • • • • •• • • • • • Research on Isotope Separation • • • • • ·• ·• •• • • • • We Matte nT •• •••• •••••• • ·• • ·• • • • • Nevada ii I • • • • • • ' • • • • • • •• • •• • • • '5 g Grounds • • • • • • • • • •• •• • 11 • • • 9 10 10 10 ll n 2a 21 n IS 3 16 22 33 1 12 21 33 Castle Tests • • • • • • • • •• ·•• ·• •• •• • • • 12 15 31 Castle Fall-out • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • - n _ • Barge Shots ••• • •• •••••••••••••• 9 Production Matters • • • • • • • • • • • • • Tritium •• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • ••• • • Plutoniu n g T vs n g-sec • • • • • • • • •_- • ••• Balanced Plutonium Schedule • • • • • • • • •· • • • • U-233 • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Plutoni't3 Isotope Separation • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 18 18 • 18 22 18 1 9 35 1 9 35 11 • Intelligence Matters • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • ·-· --- · -·- - _ r i -- 27 • Li-6 •· • • • • • • • • • • • • • •· • • • • • • • • • _ -- 6 13 31 17· 17 19 20 -oO - - r-1 ' av r · - -- - - INDEX ii Reactor J ' atters • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •••• 2 3 Pressurized Water Reactor Costs • • • • • •••• • • • 3 Boiling Water Reactor• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •• 6 24 34 2 3 3S Homogeneous Reactor • • • • • • • • • • • • • •• • • Savannah River Reactors • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 2 3 International Meeting • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 27 # Dr Libby on Medical and Indust al Uses of Radioactive Isotopes • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Sunshine Data • • • • •••• New York Times • •••••••• • • • • • • • • • t' • 28 • 30 - • • •• 35 Schedule • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 1 Appendix A Dntes Next Meeting •• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 1 • 7 3 Minutes Approval 38th Meeting • • • • • • • • • • • Party• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •• • #- 30 7 Chainnan' s Report References Appendix B • • • • • • • • • • • 22 Appendix C • Item 1 • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 33 Item 2 • · • • • • • • • • • • • • • • c • • • • Item Ja • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 3b -• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Jc • • •·· • • • • •· • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 3d • - • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Item 4 •·• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • ---· -·- - - -- -- -- -- 22 2 3 32 35 26 · 27 24 35 25 32 35 36_ I 7 3 - · · 4 _ ___ - _ _ _ ' ' c ' p - - - - ' · - 4 •-'' ' - - _ FIRST SESSION • March 31 1954 The Committee met in executive session at 9t 30 a m All members the Secretary and Mr Tomei were present The Chairman drew attention to the schedule Appendix A and agenda Schedule for the meeting ' · He informed the Commi tee of the su tul est shots oflf 1JII' yield 14 megatons expected 2-8 a Jllf i_ ld -5 •g_atons Tho results could be expected to have a tremendous impact both technicallyand economically on the Commission1 program ·- - - The fal 1-out from the ot raised very eriou problems _ - The GAC had been asked to consider the report of a Committee to Nevada Study the Nevada Proving Grounds · The report recommended certain Proving __ _ Gromds specific limitations on the size and number of shots which could be fired there Dr Rabi had already referred Mr Nichols to the Committee - • - - - - jo _ · _ statement of February 10 1953 on the importance of-· the test programs and the need to increase our weapon testing capabilities Dr Rabi said that according_ to Rand's early report_on the Gabriel ' ne project fall-out was expected to be particularly troublesome with the Remote tefen- smaller weapons This led to a discussion of the possible use of large sive Air Sc · tle numbers of small bombs for air defense and the _fall-out hazards which this would entail Dr Fisk said that the defensive battle should be fought many miles from populous centers 200-500 miles and repeatedly emphasized the mportance of this concept of the remote air battle There was some discussion of the need for evaluating this concept and it - a- ··- -- ---- - ·_ as suggested that the Committee recom nend that a study be oade on the - - r- -- -· _ - •• C - r- -• • ·- J • J •• • • 1 0'£ r Vi t T'f s j 1tv I -z 'f - '· •- -- - • - l •or •' -2- anti-aircraft u e of atomic weapcns and the fall-out effects to be This etudy might be made by Rand anticipated jointly with the AEC or preferably by the · DOD It was agreed that such a etudy would be desirablE but that further discussion should precede any recommendation by the GAC on the matter Interest was expressed in the prospects for defensive measures against submarine-launched atomic weapons A two hundred-mile missile ' might be expected The problem ·was to detect he·· subiMrine there are promisi lg developments in dete tioil methods · It i · ver difficult to detect the missile and we do ·not now know how to defend agains inter continent rockets In any case the possibilities of atomic 'h apons in defense agains airplanes should be thoroughly explored - - The _Commission had asked the GAC to comment ·on a suggestion that the Brookhaven National Laboratory be de oted entirely· to classified Entireq Unclas- research in order to provide a suiiable· 1ocation where 'uncleared sified foreigners could participate in the re earch program Dr Rabi said it BNL - · _- was his impression_ that present restrictions on en participation in unclassified research stemmed niore from fear of adverse public relations than from genuine security considerations DOE ARCHIVES The Con mittee felt that the' suggestion about BNL was in general not a good idea - It would be a real loss to the AEC not to have the classi- fied investigations now in progress there and net to be able to ca 11 on BNL for help on other classified problems in the future Also the r o-- re would tend to isolate the Laboratory from the Commission 1 s program could - -- - - - _ --- --- ·· °• have the effect of weakening the Laboratory's position and might cause -· discontent within BNL or in other of the Co nission 1 s laboratories • _ _ t r ·f- - ' '• - - -r -- •• -1 - -3- - _ - · • A paper -on PWR characteristics was considered It was particularly noted that the estimated operating cost 3000 hr core ·was 61 9 mile kwh PWR Costa ot which 39 7 mile kwh was tor reactor core fabrication At least one member of the Conmittee felt that the Committee should register a protes on these costs • · Two papers C 493 J0 and AEC 374 8 on the ·subject of V The first contained a ietter f rom ad be n forwarded to the Committee - f' t J l 0 - Bradbury to Gen Fields dated Janua17 18 195 lo hl h commented on I • the need to minimize the· - 'i t The second paper contained a letter from ' Dr Froman to Gen Fields dated January 21 1954 regarding an analys s from the 5 nuclear tests to date of the evidence n - · - ✓- - - -- -- --- - - -·• - _ - _ _ - y _ - - t ' ' --£ - · ' - -4through an inclusive analysis of the entire weapon use operation To baee a production program on the nebulous argument given _as to milita ey acceptability would be quite wrong · DOE ARCHIVES - ··- -- --·· -- - - -·· --- --- I -1 _ ' _ _ _ _ _ _ - - I · · ---_ - ·· - -s- Dr Libby raised a question whether Los Alamos should be criticizec for being too conservative · He felt that its developnerit program has been dominated by theoretical physicists and that bolder experimentatic would b 1n order Would not the emergency capability have been achieve sooner and better i f - a d been shot t the time of Mike Dr von ' -· ' ' Neumann observed th r the design ot_il' J pended on the outcome of Mike • He also remarked on the quality or - ess in the Livermore approach and said that if their experiments were successful they would continue to be bold it' unsuccessful dare no one would _to· be quite so bold At ll 30 a m the Committee met with- Dr Smyth Mr Murray Mr Uee· ing Zuckert and Mr Nichols Mr Strauss arrived later Mr Tomei was with the Commis- excused from the meeting cioners and Dr Rabi asked whether the suggestion that Brookhaven be devoted General Manager entirely to unolassified research was a serious one and expressed the BNL rather unfavorable initial reaction of the Committee Dr Smyth replied Entirely · Unclas- that he had made the suggestion for discussion to explore whether this sified might be a way to handle the fficult problem foreign participation of He rephrased the question if one were faced with the alternatives of this step or of excluding all foreigners which would be preferable Dr Rabi said that the reaction of the Laboratory should certainly be ascertcined and considered before a judgment was expressed Dr Sm rth indicated that the matter need not be further consid ared at present but might come up again DOE ARCHIVES Dr Rabi next aclmowledged receipt of the policy paper on aliens POL CY on Aliens · -·-- _ · - - ' ___ - - AEC 89 3 He mentioned that there had been considerable difficulty at - _ 1 · -- I ' - -- --- ' 7 -7 f - ' ' Brookhaven because or long delays in AEC action on the Laboratory's requests for approval to appoint foreign scientists in most cases without compensation Mr Nichols said that item h in the premeeting letter suggesting Boiling that the GAC make a technical evaluation of the proposed boiling ter Water Reactor reactor project was-a matter which the Reactor Subcommittee might consid At this point Mr Strauss entered - He first mentioned the increasi tend ency of industry to participate in the reactor program and indicated astle that the Commission proposed to_encourage this participation He next Fall-out turned to the subject of the two Castle test shots and expressed con er about the adverse publicity-resulting from the fall-out difficalties The Japanese fishermen were a problem U S repr se tatives have not bee allowed to see _them or insJ E ct their boat _ - Mr Strauss mentioned that the British had granted us basing - · -- facilities· for monitoring the Woomera tests an had_ asked us for cor - · sponding facilities at Castle ' •- Their request had been granted and there was a British intelligence team at Kwajalein Dr Rabi asked whether there was anything for the GAG to consider in connection with the President I s UN proposals 1' r Strauss replied that he hoped for suggestions on how to enlist the support of Ame_rican and also foreign scientists This session was adjourned at 12 40 p m DOE ARCHIVES f ' • 1 tdoim skssrofi t rch 31 1 54 The Committee_-met in executive session at 1 40 p m - All members ' the Secretacy1 and Ir Tomei were present ·- · • · • • Dr bi explained that it had been found desirable to postpone Part 1 the GAC ts party for the Comnissioners and• senior- AEC staff • Dates be appropriate to hold it at the time· of the next meeting 16 0 i Next · · • ' •' •••· · · · · · · • · · · · -- - · It would · The dates Meeting ot the next me eting -were -fix d as May 27 28 and· 29 1954j and it was decided to hold -the party on Fridaiy evening Mey 28 - ·_-- ·- rt was noted that Dr Libby and th Secretary_ could not be present at the n xt meeting RP-search At l _55 P• • Dr T H Johnson and Dr Smyth met with the Committee or Dr J lmson first reported on the situation Budget Division's b dget the Research The January budget submission· had q ested $42 million for FY55j this had been cut by the House Appropriations Committe · - t $ 38 9 million The Ho ise C n mitte 1's rep rt' u' '°ad th following - - - - ·_ - language2 The _Committee does· not 1 ntend to hamper· a ny productive ' - ·• · A - · · __ - research project as research is one of the most impo t t _facets of the -- - -- _ • atomic energy program There are however always fringe items which research scientists uld like to investigate which have a co paratively slight possibility of producing useful results This is the type or project that should be eliminated in order to accomplish the budget objective DOE ARCEIVI Although this year's budget is also $38 9 million the actual present rat of_ expenditure corresponds to $40 8_ m11 Ji on per year -- - -- - - •----- - - - --- _ - - F a 'l the $38 9 million figure for FY5 would necessitate a reduction of the - - f' - • 'f -- -- ' 30 t - r·· • r - I ' -8 --- present level of research effort The net reduction would be increased still further due to the effect of the new large ra illties such as the evatron and other accelerato1 s and the ANL rese rch reactor whose operating expenses must be provided ONR-AEG It was not yet known exactly where the cut would be applied however its effect would certainly be· serious · Dr Jolmso _noted that Navy longe Joint Program ity funds are now being used in ·financing the - AE c ONR- J int - • r-· - ·- Prog am -_ - He also mentioned that it was considered urgent to initiate new projects 1n corrosion research and in chemistcybearing on_ the separation of the plutonium isotopes hence the cut would This situation was deplored assistance if it provided be felt in ·other work new going on It was felt that the GAC could be or a brief but trong st t men -- urging restoration of the research budget which could be used in the S ate-budget hearing · • - for April 7 Su h a stat ent was phras ed lat ·hl -ihEr t - There was con derable discussl n · · ·- or th · rort at --i 1 - th use repo - ·1 - - - E- - - referring to fringe projects Dr Johnson and· Dr Smyf h ·- indicated that they proposed to deny that the Commission 1 s basi ' r se rch ha this - ' character Mr Murphree h·ow·ever ·cautioned that thi ·would be av k '3 rc position to take He felt it would be better to defend the research • ' program as carefully considered and well balanced and to maintain the · --- · essentie lity of research of a so-called fringe cha acter because of the - _ ·- - -- unforeseeable useful develop nents which may come out of suoh research Dr Buckley said that fundamental research should not go down while t e total effort goes it is good p actice to main ain a rough proport bet -een research and the total effort · Several favored the use of specifl exa ples of tangible develo µnents from basic research Dr Warner c 11d - DOE ARCI-llVES - 31 - -- · ·- -__ - - '-'• · ' ' • • •- •S - - · -9 ' I •• others said hat a strong point should be made ab ut the fact that addi- tio al facilities require additio al operating unds for their utillzatic With regard to the GAC's recommendations on administrative policy ir GAC the research laboratories Dr Johnson said he had circuhted an edited Reeonmen· · · · · · · · dations version to the laboratories and field offices for · comment He would repo on Research on the replies at the next GAC meeting Laboratories Dr Johnson said that the midwestern interest in a vecy high energy • I • ' • •• • Policy accelerator is increasing Dr Zinn has been told· that if the AEC were t • · ' ' • • - - • • • - - -- Accelrequest funds for a midwest acc lerator the accelerator would be located e1·ators · ·· ·· ANLat Argonne also Dr Zinn has not been authorized to proceed with a Ur i ersity · · Relaproject for the design of such an accelerator until 1·t _becomes clearer tions • that actual construction can go ahead - - - - · - The authorization of ANL funds for study of t e· accelerator project· __ - has been suspended - • - _- - f- _ •- • - This was thought to be des_irable pending a be t ter - · - - _ - • evaluation of ultimate costs and how they might - _e_ n'et Th · step was als j i 'I - - taken to avoid implications that the AEC co tting itself to constru' l was the machine D Libby questioned this step He felt it to be vital for the future of the Argonne that the schism bet en it and the universities be healed With this premise he developed the thesis that funds should b kept available to permit stepwise development of collaboration and cooperation between ANL and the universities The joint accelerator stu would be an important step in this direction Dr Warner spoke to the same subject in general agreeing with Dr Libby Dr Smyth expressed interest in the stepwise approach to the problem of Argonne-university · relations and indicated that he would review the study fund question in this light with the other Comni ssioners and the_ General 1' anager -10Dr Johnson continuing his report said that the· long delayed Execuexecutive order on re search had been released ·on March 17 by the White tive · Order House Its language·wa generally satisfactory to the AEC The Natione on • Re earch Science Foundation was to be encouraged to increase its level or opera- tions and other agencies were to be encouraged to support researches - allied to their particular interests The next subject Foreign Travel - was foreign travel · Dr Johnson said the flood of · · - - · -• · -·- · · - requests this year posed the question of what the policy should be Present practice is to allow up to one foreign trip per year from each· major division of the laboratories or per million dollars in off-site research contracts Dr Johnson propose·d to end rse requests each ultimately requires the General Manager's approval on the basis ot profit to_the research program but not on the basis o promoting good· - - will or of rewarding distinguished scientists etc _ He favored paying all the expmses or none _· Some others present did ot- e - -it was· - -·- - _5 - - _ # • • • necessary to be so rigid in the reimbursement aspect· of the trave1 polic t - and felt that provision to pay part of the expenses woul_d have many advantages The matter was not discussed further · E ARC_HIV E S Do Dr Johnson next reviewed progress in the controlled thermonuclear l • Conreaction program The main technical development had been at Livenuore i·- r0lled T 'lllo- The magnetic mirror had been excited and protons injected The lifetime nu lear F eacof the plasma 3 milliseconds indicated there re· no serious plas ia tions oscillations No neutrons have been observed yet The situation is hopeful The duty cycle will be increased machine had been almost completed A At Princeton Spitzer' s discharge had been achieved in the flexible stainless steel tube ·1 t r·- ' ' ' - · - -' ·- -ll- Dr Rabi asked if any action had been taken to set up a gr up tor theoretical studies in magneto-hydrodynamics Dr Johnson said that ' there was a research contract at NYU which would involve use t 'the computing facilities At 3 05 p m Dr Smyth left the meeting Commenting on the proposal to make Brookhaven entirely unclassified Entirel¥ Unclas- Dr Johnson said he had a staff paper which recommended against it sified The last item brought up by Dr Johnson was reactors The BNL research search proposed installation at Penn_ State has been au horlzed and nu hori aReactors tion papers are· being prepared for one at the University of Michigan Because of a eservation of the Reactor Safeguard Committee about the possibility of reaction between water and aluminum he was recomnending that the fuel elements in these steel jacketing - reactors use stainless - Dr Rabi asked liow the ·appointment of Mr T a as Assistant - affect the operations Assistant General Manager for Research and Development would General _ · Manager of the Research Division Brookhaven etc _ Dr Johnson indicated that · _ i'cr RE-snarch BNL would continue to report to the New York Operations Office l' -hich and De v alop- would repo t to Mr Tammaro instead of to the Division of Production as men· for r icrly There would now be a person Mr Tammaro who could look at BNL as a whole --i OE ARCHIVES At 3 25 p m Dr Johnson left At 3 30 p m the Committee met with Col v -G Huston Col E T Weapon Matters Dorsey Cdr G J Anderson Dr P C Fine Dr Darol Froman Dr W D Claus Dr C L Dunham and Va- Murray to discuss the Nevada Proving Grounds All members of the Committee the Secretary and '-ere present -- 7 - · - ' --' • f 1 -· •lifir' ' - ' Y ir Tomei c -12- ---- Col Huston reviewed the report and recommendations or the NPG Ca mittee The recommendations included Proving • • 1 Grounds 1 restriction or the number of nuclear shots in any 12-month period t o Nevada a planning maximum of 10 to 15 J ·• 2 each shot to be justified individually as to technical necessity and probable off-site hazard 3 shot sizes to be less than l KT for surface or subsurface 25 KT _·· -· • • ' - r for_300-foot tower 50 KT for 500-fooi tower -l °KT for airdro I fireball not to touch the gr und tlr Clau quoled tro lette trom ihe - Biology and Medicine Advisorjr C mmittee to Mr Murray which recolIDllended a planned maximum ot · 10 shots in any 12-month period Mr Murray expressed the strong belief tha he NPG should C ntinue to be used He felt it important that no indication of he itation be - given any such indication would endanger -the cont1 nu d use of the site • The Committee considered the recommendations about the NPG to be sound with the exception of the 10-shot limitation There seemed no rational basis for selecting this as the maximum number Dr von Neu ann felt it would be best not to prescribe a limiting number but rather to consider each proposed shot per • DOE ARCHIVES At 4 10 p m the visitors left except for Dr Froman Mr Murray Dr Claus and Dr Dunham Dr Froman made a number of comments about the Castle Tests - --- - ·- -- -- --- shots and their implications or the Los Alamos was reco c i nending cancellation _ t e s t and proposed to fire a containing no tritium · - r ---- _ -- - - f t j test • · · l t · '· _ l _t 'i i ' ·' l f t -- V • - ---- ' -- •' • - •• __ •• 1 - · T - - -1 31 - r boron-10 -· - · · a f ·- - -- At 4 30 p m Dr Froman and Mr Murray left the meeting Dr Claus and Dr Dunham remained to discuss the - all-out DOr 1 RC l r 1 · v ' lli i'l HI S With the aid of a map_ Dr Claus described the region in which hea--r_ r a very Castle fall-out was known to have occurred There was narrow band of Fail ut very high fall-out At Rongelap atoll 110 miles from the shot the density of fall-out ranged from about 5 to 61 msgacuries per square c le in a strip about twenty miles wide -· - _- - - --- -- _ - c-· - - - -- conta rrrlnated The drinking -ater' was heavily By the third day its activity had decreased to the - ·_ _· _ _- _ - 1 - · permissible emergency level or-1 000 disintegrations per minute per cubic centimeter ' _ 1 • ✓ _Th_ere_ as no indic tion of he vy _fall-out from••· i • Libby interpreted this difference as due to the fact that a barge she lll L as V Hence there was no extensive scavenging with coral which he believed to have occurred in t h e - a n d Mike shots From this he argued that ' · v· the world-wide t sport of activity might be much more serious in the ' '- -- ·- ·r · · case of the-Vshot At 4 m Dr Sm_yth Joined the meeting · Dr Dunham reported · · · ___ · - - on the radiation exposures - •·· fro the medical point or view · The natives in the Rongelap group received about 150 r They described the fall-out as a f'ine sand or fluffy powde 1 beg ing at H f 12 hr They were evacuated -at H 51 hr They felt fine_ for two weeks after exposure then·v riou sympt s b s los of hair depigmentation began to develop They would probably recover - •• satisfactorily _· - -- · · - _· ·_ - --·· _ Some of the exposed Japanese fishermen were in cri_ticai condition according to the most recent reports of their blood pictures If the - f 1 - rsports were correct some fatalities might be anticipated DO£ A ' At 5 15 P• D· Dr Dunham Dr Claus and Dr Smyth left the meeting In the remainder of this session various comments_ were excha need on the GAC should say about the Nevada Proving Gr mnd ques-tion ' • boldness or the lack 0£ it at Los Alamos etc V At -------• ----- 1 ----- 5 45 p m this session -as adjourned • --a -- t i · 'I - Jr 1s · - IIIIIIIIIC • • # ·- - - ----- --4' · -15- THIRD SESSION ' April 1 1954 The meeting was called to order at 9s30 a m All members ot the Weapon Cornrnittee the Secretary and Mr Tomei were prese t Various visitors Matters were iso present to witness the howing ot th m e ot tef • • J • theltifi • • After ihe showing or - • • • • • the movie the visitors • 'V __- t- • pr s nl re Dr 'Froman Dr Carson Mark Col HU ston Dr Fine Mr M_u rray Dr Smyth and Col ' Dorsey · soina Castle Tests wer'e as follows DOF A RCHiVES - A • _ ' _ ' j • - --- ' ' ' Lt ---' _ ' ' A ___ Q • r I · ---- · _ - - - ------ _ __ __ _ _T-- - -· - - DOE ARCHIVES • --·· -17- ·· ----··-·-After some further discussion in which Dr _Libby again voiced hie · · · · with At ll JS a m Dr Fra hk Pittman mei Produ tion · • · · I• - t ot the sessioh mi concluded caveat against barge shots this part the Corlmrl ttee to discuss and the effect of the test esults on these All membet of tfie Committee the Se retary and Mr Tomei production requirements Matters requit-ements lt 'ere present Dr Mark Dr Froman and Dr Fine also - remained • Dr Pittman reported that the new requirement for tritium was at Tritium most halt of the previous requirement Hence it will not be necessary to enrich all of the Savannah River reactors or as many at Hanford as planned Another J0-40% reduction in the requirement would make it un necessary to use any enriched loadings at Savannah River Dr Pittman also seid that it no tritium were require for thenno uclear weapons - some enrichment would be required at Savannah River··up to 1956 but norie · i thereafter Dr Pittman mentioned a probable change in the manner of specifying Plutoniun plutonium quality It was proposed to state the specification in terms g T vs n g-sec of the number of neutrons eoitted per gram per second rather than in teros of g T grams of plutonium per ton of uranium The definition of high quali y plutonium would be 20 n g-sec ra her th 2fil f tRCHIVES It was planned to fulfil the plutonium requirements by a balance1 Balanced production schedule at two levels 20 n g-sec for high quality material Plutonium Schedule and 80 n g-sec i or standard material The lat r level corz esponds to -----a _ __ - __ _--- -·- -·- - - • • _11 '- ' -l ' l · t - -• 4 7-- y • - - '' 7 7· '' - ·- - - - _ _z -- -- -19- -----· a substantially higher g T level than the present standard production and the acceptance or this level will make high qm lity te i l b nece iiaij to planned in additio l4thout it po sible to produce the much foo t lie it wiU noi unde take ne p cess piant co t ti now yond that The requireme t for high queli ty material will not be met 1955 and probably not in 19 56 but will be in 1957 There was some consideration of whether still higher qualit7 plutonium would be needed as suggested in Dr Bradbury's letter Dr Mark summarized the situation by saying that material - of better than · 200 g T qu lity was not needed for present designs but that its lack would place a limitation on fut design pos ibilities _ Dr Pittman reviewed the U-233 situation U-23 3 According to a recent study the cost of U-233 would be comparable to that of 20·n g-sec plutonium It was planned to commence some production by loading an enriched Savannah River reactor with thorium next year There is some - indication that the_suppl y of thorium metal will-be a bottleneck a separation plant For a S vannah River Purex plant- will probably be convert to the Thorax process ' Upgro ding plutonium by isotope separation did_ not appear economicall Plutonium ad rantageous under any conditions in cofilparison to U-233 Dr Pitt m m Isctope Separa- referred the Committee to an Operations Analysis report by Mr Her cn tion which compared low g T isotope separation and ·u-2 33 report was not avail ble during the meeting However the DOE ARCHIVES The lithium-6 production plans had not been altered e nd the plan to --- -----·-Li-6 ·· x - construct a second plant was going along - - ·- LiOH to LiD might be a bottleneck The capacity for converting At 12 35 p m this session was adjourned FOURTH SESSION · A il 1 1954 The Committee met at 1 45 p m All members The arrived during the ess1on ··· Mr Tomei entered during the session ·•4 - Secretary was present • _ Dr Reichardt me wi h the Coinrniitee at • pi-ese_ht except 0 hr Libbj h · • re t hi - time to report on Intelli- intelligence mattersi gence Matters __ _ - _ _ - - • -- - - • z · I ft-J - ··• -21- I ·- -_ ·-- 7 • e · -------- - Dr Reichardt left at 2 10 p m and the meeting-continued in executive· ses sion The Committee returned briefly to the question whether Brookhaven BNL should be devoted entirely to unclassified work It was agreed that Entirely Unclas- there was no basis for a formal comment by the GAC at this tim · i t s sified generally felt that the suggested move was undesirable both from the Comnission's point of view and from that of the Laboratory ·If the· question were to be considered further the Committee would like to_ have a document e g staff paper · in which the proposal was analyz '-• Kno l edge of the attitude of the Laboratory would be an important element in any i'urther·considerations At 2215 p m Dr Libby returned DOE ARCHIVES The next subject considered was the use of the Nevada Proving i -yada Grounds All agreed that the continued use of the proving ground was Pr- J ri J1g G ·•e - _ 'lds essential to the weapon program C ontinuation of the test program ·was imperative otherwise progress would be stopped in important lines of weap n development The· recommendations of the NPG Co nmittee were felt to be sound in general but with the specific exception of the one whlch reco JII1ended l imitation of the number of shots in any 12-month period to - - - __ - -- - -- t · ii _ • ' - ' - 1 • --- -- -- _ - - - -22- ·---10-15 The discussion on the number 10 since this seemed to l focussed i the lLnitatio that the Commission was actually considering The Comrni te could see no technical or safety reasons or fixing on the number io A better policy would be to shoot whatever number are necess and practical appropriate precautions being taken for each shot ·· Appendix B j The Committee next coneidered the linked eubjects · futonium quality and production of materials •P · • d ot Dr Rabi exp pieasure that the problem of producing 20 n g sec 11 200 g T11 plutoni now seemed less formidable However the need for material of this quality had not been demonstrated Dr von Neumann pointed out that somE quantities of high grade material would continue to be needed as long as · there were new weapon designs to be tested in order to eliminate · plutonium quality as a factor in the test results He referred here to tests necessary in the development of new designs rather than to proof firings Appendix C item 2 Greater kpowledge and understanding is required on two technical - 1 -- -- --- -- - _ _ _ -- ----- DOE ARCHIVES - - - n • ' -- '• -- - e- -- ·14- - R --· · r _ __ ·• - ---•·-- - --- _ -_ --- -- r - -23The feeling was expressed that Dr Bradbury should re-write his • t •f• lett r of January 18 1954 to Gen Fields 1n the light of subsequent • I r Fisk in particular emp sized that the statement experience _ -· regarding DOD acceptance or given ' • • probability should be - JJ _ It was also felt that test results should be thoroughly co sidered before production steps more drastic than the program described by Dr Pittman were undertaken The was _no - cut back - xpression or opinion that the Li' -6 program sh mld be The possibility that 30 megatons could be achieved with Appendix C item 2 ' type device employing 95% Li-6 s impressive v - • a J r von Neumann said that this was Bl'llonymous with the possibility of achieving greater eff1 IY and reduced weight smaller sing ·v Los Alamos intended to develop a 95% Li-6 Dr Rabi suggested that the Committee • re urn to these questions at its next meeting Mr Whitman reported on his visits to Oak Ridge and Savannah River Reactor In general his impression was excellent The problems involved in the Hr tters production changes were being abl 3 handled Many or his fears on the R0moho ogeneous reactor project had been allayed and he thought the corrosio geneous eactor problem would be solved It was felt at Oak Ridge that the homogeneous reactor would be the answer to any need for large amounts of low n g-se plutonium DOE A ncI rT T-r 1 - i 1 ii Tho reactors at Savannah River looked good although two problems Savannah were bothersome at the moment 1 The reactors '-ere 11 nervous 11 e -peris - Ri·· rer Reac- ing frequent shut-downs due to the abundant and active safety controls tors 2 There were worries about the ·safety aspects of enriched loadings • --- -- -- - -- _ - - -- - · - •·· I ' -24• •··--- ' However enrichment now appears unnecessary as far as tritium is concernE and the problems may have been solved by the time enriched loading is use to' in ake U-2 33 Dr Wigner observed that the U-2 33 program was not vecy well settled yet but that 1n any case thorium makes for a little bette stability because or the temperature coefficient or the resonance capture Mr Whitman mentioned the zero power pile and the production type· pile built specifically for developnent work at Sa annah River felt it was a good idea to have He had these reactors but had not studied the matter closely• At 2150 p m Dr von Neumann left the meeting Boiling Wate - With regard to the question on the boiling water reactor in the pre · meeting letter Mr Whitman said that this would be considered in a · - · · - - 4 Reactor meeting of the Reactor Subcommittee later in the day - Y r Whitman- mentioned his impression that the K-25 group would like Research to be asked by the Commission to increase the scope of its research on on Isotope methods of isotope separation This was discussed to some extent The St p •a cn COmr J ittee seemed to feel that isotope separation research should be encouraged in general Dr Libby being the most strongly outspoken pro- ponent of this view Append ix C item 3c DOE ARCHIVES The Chairman next brought up the subject of AEC policy on research Polioy on 1 • 3nS by foreigners at BNL and UCRL This had originally been ari agenda ite n _for discussion by the General Manager however it had been learned that the Commission had reformulated its policy on this subject and a copy of a pa per AEC 89 3 was available -•· --- - _ _ - -- - - - - · ·- - - - - ' He read portions o this document - -- -r I 'r7 r r -25- --- - - Dr Rabi went on to say that the policy as expressed seemed satisfactory but that the applications of the policy b 8d left sanething to be desired • He then quoted from a letter which Dr Goudsmit of BNL had written to express his personal view on the situation In this letter Dr Goudsmit referred to the great benefits to the laboratories and t the AEC of having foreigners participate in the unclassified researc programs and he drew attention to difficulties which had een experience• · •- in making arrangements with the AEC for such p icipation • The diffi- culties were in the nature -of refusals in some ·cases but were predom nantly that the AEC delayed its answers to requests for approval for very extended periods of time General Manager Dr Rabi had given a copy of the l tter to the Brookhaven h d had a number of requests pending for months for pennission for aliens to engage in un la s fied work in most cases without compensation and on a temporary basis had been received - No word at all Dr Wigner said that requests should certainly not go • • • J • unanswered for six months and he felt the GAC should go on record to that effect Appe di x C item 3d The next subject considered was the House cut in the FY55 budget of the Research Division Dr Warner had prepared a statement on this Statement on subject which was read to the Con mittee This statement was adopted t7 Rosearch '3uc5et the Committee as an expression of its position After 5 ome slight su GAC DOE ARCHIVES sequent modifications the statement read as follow·s 11 The GAC is seriously concerned over the disadvantage to the AEC program of the prospective cut in the budget --··--··- - - - __ -·--·- -_-· ·--- -- _ - requested by the Comnission £or support of basic research • __ - ---- AI • • - ------- ------ __-- - ' --· - - _ IQ _ _ -- --r- -26- -- It is o belief that the experience or industl f is • pertinent - that as total scale or operation is increased and _made more diyersified more money must be spent on The overall scale research to insure continued progress of operation of the AEC has been increasedj the diversity of operations has been increased and import t new research facilities requiring substantial budgets for i ·1 - their full use have been furnished W t • • • urg - the'· Commission to make every effort to have the· e ch bucget fully restored a Secretary's Not a Two copies of the statement were transmitted to the General Manager on April 2 1 budget restored 1954 for his use in attempts to get the - Appendix C item 3a • -• - • I •· • • - The Committee had considered whether it should prepar a more · · ·· - - - - · - - _- elaborate statement containing quantitative research budget comparisons · -· - ·_ -·· with industry and also justifications of fringe basic research by specific examples It decided not to do so at this time The Committee felt that a specific co ent should be addressed to thE Olffi-AEC Joint P1 3ram Corn rd ssion on the subject of the ONR-AEC Joint Program The attrition of the longevity funds which -were now being used by the Navy to keep the A previously expresse program going was considered very unfortunate sentiment to the effect that it t'IOu ld be more worthwhile for the iEC to support this program than the construction of new linear accelerators for heavy ions was reiterated Dr Libby and Dr Wigner - It was agreed to Dake a statement of regret that the GAC saw no plans on the part of the t - -- _·- I 'f-1 -- - ----- - - _ _q -- - - _- ----- -27- - -- ot this important program to do its part in maintaining the level Appendix C item 3b In connection with the Castle tests Dr Libby again raised his Barge · S hots strong objections to firiN 8IJY more rart shots mtil more was known abou· what happened to th ebri · His beliet was that in contrast to' shots in which a large mass or coral was blown up and could scavenge the debris cloud through near-b ' fall-out the water blown up in a raft might not act to scavenge the cloud ' ' ·- t - • • • • -- Hence there might be a much greatel danger of distant contamination in the case or barge shots ehot • Dr Ra bi attacked this thesis as implausible and unprove and a vigorous argument developed Since sufficient data were not· available _the disagreement remained unresolved Some doubt was expressed however t at scavenging by coral could remove more than a small fraction ·or the radioactive ' debris Mr Tomei was excused from the meeting at 3 45 p m _ Dr Rabi told the Committee about the l t er ch he had written to Mr Strauss on February 23 1954 and read a copy of the letter He ' - also reviewed subsequent events bearing on the subject of the letter At 3 55 p m Dr von Ueumann returned DOE ARCHIVES I connection with Mr Strauss 1 s interest in enlisting scientists Interbehind the UN 1 s proposal Dr Rabi mentioned a suggestion which he ha national 1eeting made to Mr Strauss along this line The suggestion was to hold an unclassified international scientific meeting on atomic energy the nceti g to be held under the auspices of the National Science Foundation or the - - -- i--·-_--- _ - __ ----- -· _ -- National Academy of Sciences The _l cation would perhaps be outside the - _ - - - -- --- • - I o __ f _ _c··· •· -28-T -· • country If properly handled the conference could have strong propagend value The etatus of the GAC 1 s reconrnendations relative to administrative GAC pol icy in the Commission's reeearch laboratories was considered Dr Recommen· dations Libby pointed out that no mechanism seemed t exist for implementing them on Research He suggested that Mr Nichols be asked whether Mr Tammaro would be in a Labora tories position to consider carrying them out Thie was discussed at some · · Polic7 length particularly in connection with speculatione ab ut the functions Assistant G neral Mar ager fo - Resea ·ch and Development of the new post of Assistant General Manager for Research It was decided not to raise the question with the Commission at this time Dr Rabi suggested that it might be a good idea to have Mr Tammaro in at the next meeting of the Committee The Chairman next offered the floor to Dr Libby for a presentation Dr Libby of his ideas about medical and industrial uses of isotopes which he had o l Medical · · and been wishing to bring before the Cormnittee for the last· several meetings Industrial · · · -- Uses of Dr Libby responded He said that there were important possibilitie Radi oact-ive for uses of radioactive isotopes far beyond their current applications Isotopes On the medical side he said the possibilities of clinical uses for very diagnostic tests on healthy people as well as sick ones are 1argely unexplored He believed this to be potentially an e_noroous field would be cheap and non-hazardous those of hydrogen and carbon The most important isotopes would be - Unfortunately he had been unable to elicit very much interest from the medical profession be It The reasons seemed to 1 that it had on recent been reali ed that such uses w mld be safe and 2 the lack of appropriat instruments for low level -·_ _ - - measureI 1ents '· nJ--Q '1 - i '6 - n - - ' • '-l • i S 11 _ •J J 1 i -- - JS I -- - -- _r·- - - - - _- - -- _ __ _- - -- 0 -- -· _ __ - -29- _____ __ --- _ He referred to the isotope farm which had been started five years ago at ANL to prepare biosynthetically the drugs that would be used Mar labelled compounds were now available but the interest of the drug companies and physicians had been slight Medical research with isotopee seemed to have been so strongly oriented toward the field or pathological ailments that the possibilities for these practical diagnostic applications had received little attention However he felt pl ysiciens would be ' interested if someone would develop the instruments d_ techniques Dr Libby mentioned that some degree of interest had bee·n shown in the products of the isotope farm by Lilly' Abbott and the American Tobacco ·' Company the latter for research purposes Dr Libby proposed that the Commission get behind this field of isot pe applications and push it those from atomic power The benefits might _be comparable to He suggested that Dr Manov of the Office of Industrial Development be encouraged to catalyze interest in the field and to get companies to make instruments available There were various questions particularly as to the reasons for thir king that clinical applications would have such despread kportance As examples Dr Libby mentioned the determination of blood volUI 1es tl tritium compounds the results might differ in a significant way frcm those determined with sodium the possible use of labelled sugar for tbe diagnosis of diabetes Dr Wigner remarked that Dr Libby's personal enthusiasm might be t i best agent for kindling interest in the oedical profession - - - --- - ·- ---· - ------- - - -- _- --- Dr Rabi said that the Commission might consider collaborating ldth the Nationtl -- - Institutes of Health in order to develop the right kind of instrucents --·· -151-- - -· ' On the industrial side Dr - -· · -- -- - i -JO __ _ · Libby went oh to - ___ _ -- -- - - - sayj there are hundrede ot unexploited possibilities tor isotope labelling e g in the petroleum industry aild_in COMectiod'with the 5IJ10g problem • The big bottleneck is the fact that the appropriate instruments scintillation counters and Geiger col lhter or special design are not available on the market Mr Murp ee and Dr Buckley said that this situation will take care I of itself in a normal way r Dr Fisk observed that instrument manuf'actureJ will respond better to the needs arouse their interest or users than to forced attempts to He also remarked that industry needs more well trained radiochemists who can see the possibillti 3B _in isotope e ppllca- tions and Mr Murphree said that there were probably many helpful applic tions of isotopes 1n the oil industry which were not beirig made just - because people were not accustomed to this technique • - The Committee did not attempt to decide t this time on an action to take with reference to Dr Libby's proposa1s The Minutes or the 38th Me ting were considered After some altera- X-1 nutes tions of phrasing suggested by Dr Wigner and by Mr Murphree they were Approval 38th approved Meeting DOE ARCHIVES During the remainder of this session Dr Libby presented some new S-1rif' 1tl ne data on the world-wide distribution of strontium-90 Stillborn Chicago Dat l and Utah babies analyzed about 0 15-0 2 units one uni b_eing · 1 1000 cf the tolerance ratio of Sr-90 to calcium about 0 05 Stillborn babies from India we New England adults and teeth from adult Londoners ere bla 'lk Wisconsin cheeses had a level about ten times that of Chicago babies ----•·- _ ---· --- -- _ _-_--- c_ European cheeses were a little lower Wisconsin calves 1-2 units - - Wisconsin alf'alia was 5-20 units Other data ·were given - - _t '1 ' _ - Y' ------- - -- - -- - - - · c - - --- - - - - · -- -31At 5 00 p m this session was adjourned ' FIFTH SESSION April 2 1 1954 The Committee assembled at 9 30 a m but since the Chairman had to be absent for a time did not formally convene until he returned at 10 0S a m Gen Fields and Dr Fine also entered at this time the Ca nmittee except Dr Libby were present All members ot The_ Secretary and Mr Tomei ··-1 -· · were present - - -- - - Gen Fields announced that it had been de finitely decided to elin ina Castle Tes s the both from the tests and from the stockpile The without tritium would be added to the test series ·He then commented on the test difficulties in connection with Weathe Fall-out scheduling _and the contaminatio _or fix in o e The barge technique reduced local fall-out 6 althoug 11 d given heavye ll-out in the o - Quantitative ooiparison of ' ' the • ' fall ut f t - w i t h tha· from-was • not yet possible He said it was estimated that the fall· V out from-corresponded to at least 3 megatons ' A-oc1-nvES - Gen Fields mentioned an interesting observation in connection with - In a photograph taken about 10 minutes after the explosiori heavy particles could be seen falling out o f the dome from above the 40 CX O ft level 50-75 miles - - _ _ - They effectively enlarged the stem to a diameter of The first fall-out on Rongelap could not have been from 't 1c stem the later heavier deposition was due to the stem · - - - Conversation about the tests continued for a -while Gen Fields indicated that he was convinced that these large apons should not be - - -- V'¾ -r - - --- -- - -- _ -· '• -32shot unless there was very good insurance of getting a lot out of the test Dr Rabi said it was important to find out what has happened to the He also informed Gen Fields of the Cornmi tte clouds ' poeitfon on the · ' · question and that it would recommend a -- pv C Appendix test i ¥Nevada item 2 Mr Tomei was excused from the meeting at this point There was some discussion of the number of urrently vailable -•- iv ' and also the continuation of the standing requi ement for Li-6 · Gen Fields indicated that he felt the Li-6 question should be reexamined after the _test results were in and understood before committing the remaining $100 million to the Li-6 production program At 10 35 a m Dr Libby Mr Nichols and Dr Smyth joined th _ ectin1 ' Meeting Mr Campbell and Mr Zuckert who had entered a few minutes prev i_ ously -- with the Commis- remained All members of the Connnittee and the Secretary were present to iers and Mr Tomei was not present General Manager Dr Rabi reviewed the Committee I s reactions t o the various matters which had come before it at this meeting DOE ARf HJvns He first mentioned the proposal to have only unclassifiea res·e t-ch Policy on Aliens work at Brookhaven and in connection with this the AEC 1 s policy on aliens as stated in AEC 89 3 He referred to the difficulty of delays L l AEC action on specific requests regarding aliens and said that this ·was hard on the morale of laboratory management Prompt negative action if necessary would be better than six-month delays He asked if the pol c r expressed in AEC 89 3 had been promulgated to the laboratories llir Niche replied that a letter on the subject was going out to the field ___ _ _ -- _- App ndix C item 3d -- • • ' 'i • - _ -fl ' • I '-•✓·-- • - - - _ r- _• --- --or- --· Dr Rabi next presented the GAC's position on the essentiality Nevada Proving Grounds ot the use of the Nevada Proving Grounds and its agreement with the recom- mendations or the NPG ommittee exc pt tor the 10-shot 12-month limit Dr Smyth and Mr Zuckert commented on _the growth of tension during a long series and Mr Zuckert said that from this standpoint e·ven a 10-sh limit was too high Dr Fisk suggested that it might ease public rela- tions if the Commission would stress the defensive as well as the retaliatory- role which atomic weapons could play The defense of the cotmtry would be a real selling point for public acceptance of the tests Dr Smyth was somewhat doubtful that arguments should be us d which l- Qul put one in the position of bargaining with the public Dr Rabi said the tests we i e so important that it would be well to spend additional money to evacuate people from danger areas if that became necessary Dr Rabi expressed the Committ - congrat ations on the success _ execution and outcome of the tests J He also said that i t e Commitiee was gratifie to learn from the discussion with Dr • Pittman that the need for 200 g T plutonium could be met with the existing P nd projected separation plants without loss of production Appendix C item 1 Dr Rabi next revie •ied the Co I ll ttee's position on 2 00 g T 11 plutonium as earlier agreed on He brought out the Bra ll ury's letter on this subject may have been premature and should be revised after the Castle tests are completed and the data revie d DOE ARCHIVES The desirability of measuring cross sections bearing on the yields was brought up and it of h a S suggested that Los Al os • and the Research Division get together to discuss this question - -- ---- - ' ' _r- · - · - · · - ___ -- • - - - ·- -·---- s-·-- - 1 --- - ' -34- - Dr Rabi next reported the Comnittee's comments on ihe cut in the Research Budget Research Division's budget and on the ONR-AEC Joint _Program ONR-AEC m ntioned that there is money in the Joint Program if it doesn't get cut out FY5S budget Mr Nichol tor the Joint Program Mr Zuckert made several conments on the problems involved in budgeting basic research It is extremely difficult to show how much money is going into the direct research effort e g in physics and chemistry as contrasted to how much is eaten up y_fixed overhead costs The present accounting system does not reflect these_ fixed costs wh ch are continually being built in in machines and brick ·and murtar For a given level or annual expenditure as the installations increase the amount of refJearoh will decrease Mr Zuckert hoped that an accounting system would be devised which would segregate the osts of the fixed • - - • - - - · - • t' establishment from those of the direct effort • He also hoped that it· wou1d be possible to alleviate the BNL difficulties which arise from the - _ · - ·- - fact that the Laboratory gets funds from three separate 'sources in the AEC and has no separate fund for its overall operation _ Such an accounting plan was being worked on and might be reaey for the FY56 budget Dr Rabi said the GAG has been greatly perturbed by the language of the House report which betrayed a lack of understanding of the nature o basic research Mr Nichols agreed and said a campaign on Congress nen by scientists was probably needed DOE ARCHIVES v-tith regard to the General Manager's request for an evaluation of -- - _ - -- -- _ -- Boiling Water Reactor the BWR Dr Rabi said the Con mittee had had no document which could serve as a basis for a technical evaluation but that the Reactor ' - ---- - -----tn1111n - - • -35 ----4 - -- - --e- - ---- Subcommittee would visit ANL or Arco during the first half of July to be arranged with Dr Zinn Dr _ Smyth an_d Mr • Nichols expressed the hope that the Subcon mittee would also consider whether the BWR were r ceiving a disproporti nate share of en husiasm _at the expense of the fast breeder work Appendix c · item 4 • There was some discussion of the homogeneous reactor • Mr Whitman Homogeneous Reactor mentio ed his i'e ling of enc' uragement after visiting Oak Ridge _ - __ Dr · Smyth and Mr Nichole raised the· question whether - ne _of the intermediat steps before the full-scale reactor should not be skipped Dr Wigner said that although the Laboratory_was concerned by some of the technical problems it would probably agree to omit the next intermediate step if encouraged to do so Mr Whitman had an impression that it was in part - - - - 0 a political question and that Oak Ridge would probably -omit - • - ·- -_ · were step if the full-scale reacto approved 'J -- the next -- ' - - Comnenting on U-23 3 Dr Rabi said that the Committee felt that - U-233 - --- - going ahead with it was a good idea worthwhile in its own right How- ever not enough information had been axailable at this meeting to serve as a basis for any far-reaching conclusions Analysis paper which considered He hoped that the Operatic U-233 in relation to other questions could be available at the next meeting Appendix C item 2 -· ' Dr Rabi next commented that the GAC favored the encouragement of Plutonium Isotope - _ isotope separation research wherever possible MrA Whitman suggested Separa tion th t K-25 could be encouraged to do more along this line DOE ARCHIVES item 3c New York Times ·- - - Appendix C The next subject discussed ·was the appearance of a column in the New York Times in which W L Laurence had made some statements -hich · --- ' '• · 1 -- • - • - -36- appeared seriously to violate security Specifically it had been stat that tritium was no longer required for our thermonuclear weapons The GAC deplored this both as a terrible leak ot security information and as very damaging to morale in· the Commission's la borat-oriee and wished to _ bring the matter to the Commission's attention There was considerable discussion on this subject' Dr Rabi informed the visitors that the next meeting of the GAC ' and that it would hold a party for the Dates of would be on May 27 28 and 29 Next Meeting Commissioners and their principal staff on the 28th - · · At 11 40 a m the visitors left Before adjournment Dr von Neumann asked if the Weapon Subcon mitteE could visit Los Alamos Sandia and Livermore about the middle of July - This was agreed ·on and Dr von Neumann said he would arrange it in - ' Ap ndix C tandem with the trip of the Reactor Subcommittee item 4 At 11 45 a m this final session was adjourned - · ·- I 1 ··· - • - - ··c-- - Richard W Dodson Secretary Attachments Appendix A -- Schedule Appen iioes B and C Chairman 1 s Report DOE ARCHn1ES ·- -· - · _ -- ' · ' r ---- ----·-- ---··-- - -·-·- ---- - t - -· - -- _ - 'If¥' lll 'Ulr •· • IL PW - --- -· ___ - - - --- - ' GENERAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE to the U S ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION Washington 25 D C• March 30 1954 ' The following is the tentative Schedule for the 39th Meeting or the General Advisory Conmdttee to be held in room 213 on March 31 April 1 and 2 Matdh 31 - • Wednesday 9130 a m - Executive Session · 11 00 a m -- Meeting with the Commissioners and General Manager lr30 p m -2 00 p m 3 30 p m - 4 30 p m -- 9130 a m -- Weapon Matters•••••••·••••••·•·•·•••••••••Col Dorsey Dr Mark Dr Froman 11 30 a m - Production and Raw Materiais •••••••••••••• Dr Pittman Mr J C Johnson lsJO p m -- Executive Session Anril 2 Friday 9c30 a m -- Executive Session 10 30 a m -- Meeting with the Commissioners and General Manager 12 00 noon -- Adjournment Richard W Dodson Secretary Changes in Schedule may be found necessary in advance of or during the Meeting The offices of the Commissioners the General 1-' anager and the Secretary will be kept infomed of any changes --- -- -- -· · Intelligence Matter•••••••••••••••••••••••Dr Reichardt Research Matters •••••••••••••••••••••••••• Dr T H JohnsonJ 'Weapon Matters •••••••••••••••••••••••••••• Col Huston Dr Claus Dr Dunham Executive Session· April 1 Thursday _i --- DISTRIBUTION n 1· - I r-J Commissioners 5 General Manager 2 Secretary AEC 16 Secretary GAC 14