“Hot as a Firecracker” Date 1964-01-10 Conversation WH6401-11-1305 Participant Lyndon B Johnson Participant Richard B Russell Jr Start Time 13 25 Duration 03 19 Place Oval Office SCENE SETTER Over the previous few days violent exchanges between American and Panamanian students in the Panama Canal Zone had resulted in over 20 deaths and a rupture in U S -Panamanian relations President Johnson spoke with Sen Richard B “Dick” Russell Jr D– Georgia about the American response and relayed a summary of his communications with Panamanian president Roberto Chiari President Johnson talking on speakerphone I talked to that president Roberto Chiari I have not talked to you since then have I Richard B “Dick” Russell Jr No sir President Johnson I told him that the Thomas C “Tom” Mann mission was taking off within 30 minutes That it included some of my most trusted advisers including Mann and Cyrus R Cy Vance and Harry C McPherson Jr ” That it was a good group That he must bear in mind that the enemies of both of us were exploiting this thing That—he immediately said that he wanted to revise all of our agreements and that would have to be done I told him that we couldn’t get into that That I wanted to get the facts of what happened That I understood this occurred on soil that we had in our area That— Break in the tape Russell That’s something we just should emphasize at every stage of the proceedings President Johnson That these were students and that I wanted to get the facts on it and I didn’t want it to be an excuse I didn’t want people to have to use these methods in order to—violent methods—in order to work out agreeable arrangements That I appreciated what he had done to ask for quiet That I was asking our people to do the same But that these men could go into the factual situation with him and make a report But I was cold and hard and tough as hell so far as— Russell Well that is exactly right 1 President Johnson —so far as this is concerned Then I went back in and told our group here that I thought we had to remember that a week ago—two or three weeks ago—I had to tell them in Bolivia I’d send whatever aid I needed in there to keep—make them release one of our people there A few days later—A few days earlier they had someone else locked up Russell coughs some other place and I was damn tired of attacking our flag and our embassy and our USIS U S Information Service every time somebody got a little emotional outburst down there so they’d better watch it Russell speaking under President Johnson I’m so pleased I’m so pleased Now you That’s a great president That’s a man who’ll go down in history President Johnson Now I just wanted you to know that And this group has gone And Edwin M Martin’ll be coming back tomorrow But the old man finally said well he’s glad to be talking to a man that is taking some action And I said “Well they’ll be there ” And I think Cy Vance will be pretty tough too Russell Well that fellow Andrew P O’Meara down there is a pretty good man President Johnson Well he’s— Russell General O’Meara President Johnson He’s had to order his people to start shooting again Russell He has Well that’s all right They got to if they shoot at them You can’t expect our people to stand there and be killed and not fire back President Johnson Well I mean it’s a hot unclear — Russell Anywhere in the world President Johnson I’m not trying to unjustify it or justify it I’m just saying it’s a hot—hot as a firecracker Russell I realize it is President Johnson All right Russell I realize it is but it’s wholly a mental state as far as we’re concerned and a national image so far as the United Nations is concerned And I think we can protect both President Johnson Well I think the position that ought to be on the Hill is we ought to be careful what we say but for God’s sakes if we say anything say “We did right acting promptly to send some—the ablest men we got down there ” Now they tell me that everybody in Latin America is scared of this fellow Mann They highly regard him because he’s a tough guy He’s not the regular Russell Well I hope he is I think he’s much tougher than the ones we’ve had And he has a velvet glove but I hope he has his little iron fingers under it President Johnson Well he—I think he does I think he does Russell Well I’m counting on that 2 End of excerpt CITATION “Lyndon Johnson and Richard Russell on 10 January 1964 ” Tape WH6401 11 Citation #1305 Presidential Recordings Digital Edition The Kennedy Assassination and the Transfer of Power vol 3 ed Kent B Germany and Robert David Johnson Charlottesville University of Virginia Press 2014– URL http prde upress virginia edu conversations 9030111 This conversation was transcribed by the Miller Center’s Presidential Recordings Program with the generous support of the National Historical Publications and Records Commission Full information about this conversation “Hot as a Firecracker” 3